Apotheoun Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Era Might' date='24 February 2010 - 01:51 PM' timestamp='1267044668' post='2062554'] I agree that the world would be much more peaceful if Muslims renounced violence in the name of Mohammed. And the world would also be a lot more peaceful if Christians renounced violence done in the name of Christ. Violence by Christians worries me more than violence by Muslims. The violent Muslims at least don't claim to be my friend, and they don't claim to be representing the Son of God. [/quote] Which is why you are not a good quietist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='24 February 2010 - 03:53 PM' timestamp='1267044803' post='2062558'] Which is why you are not a good quietist. [/quote] Well, you'll have to find another box to put me in I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Era Might' date='24 February 2010 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1267044788' post='2062557'] The perversion of the Gospel is a worriful thing. In some sense, it is the only thing worth worrying about. [/quote] Which is why I say the things I do about Islam, which openly distorts and rejects the Gospel, by rejecting the divinity of Christ and the dogma of the Holy Trinity. May God bring that vile religion to a peaceful end the conversion of Muslims to Christ. Edited February 24, 2010 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Era Might' date='24 February 2010 - 01:54 PM' timestamp='1267044888' post='2062560'] Well, you'll have to find another box to put me in I guess. [/quote] Nah. You are a quietist, you are just a weird one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) ...but in Christianity, there is a backlash against the violence done by other "Christians." We can chastise our violent bretheren, and stand up against them, repudiate their faults because there is no sound Christian principle in which they act out the violence... but in Islam there is no such thing...sometimes you are a better muslim for the violence against the infidels... When Christians sin and kill and do all kinds of violent acts against others they will have Hell to pay...when muslims do it...they have virgins waiting for them on the other side... i don't fear any man, but if you ask me, the acts of terror propagated by Islam is in fact, the more terrifying, because they have no conscience telling them what they are doing is wrong...nor do they feel they face any consequences of their actions, but rather a prize... ...but you go ahead and keep fearing the so-called "Christians" who commit terrorism in the world...(whoever they are and wherever they may be...) Edited February 24, 2010 by dominicansoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Normile Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Era Might' date='24 February 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1267043558' post='2062542'] Are you serious? Read the history of the colonization of the Americas. It wasn't Muslims who enslaved Africans in the United States. [/quote] Yup I am serious I have read plenty about the colonization of america, I never seen any reference to where this was Christs will to colonize the states. I did read where they escaped religious persecution in their homelands by moving here, especially the shakers and the quakers. Actually in many cases muslims trafficked the slaves, which they bought in the majority of the cases from their african tribal leaders, as these people were accustomed to selling their own as well as other tribe members they captured as slaves, and then sold them to trading houses which then sold them to colonists who were both christian as well as agnostics, atheists, those who had no beleif at all and even satanists. Slavery did not begin in America either its been around much longer than Catholicism too. Look up the Code of Hammurabi ca. 1760 BC, yup thats 1760 BC. In modern times in the Sudan , namely in Mauritania, a muslim people, an estimated 600,000 people are slaves, these are men, women and children almost 20% of the population there are used as bonded labor, they voted to outlaw any future slavery in August of 2007. ed Oh by the way when I went to click on the reply here I accidently gave you a plus 1 for your post, no harm no foul my friend!. Edited February 24, 2010 by Ed Normile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='24 February 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1267045178' post='2062564'] ...but in Christianity, there is a backlash against the violence done by other "Christians." We can chastise our violent bretheren, and stand up against them, repudiate their faults because there is no sound Christian principle in which they act out the violence... but in Islam there is no such thing...sometimes you are a better muslim for the violence against the infidels... When Christians sin and kill and do all kinds of violent acts against others they will have Hell to pay...when muslims do it...they have virgins waiting for them on the other side... i don't fear any man, but if you ask me, the acts of terror propagated by Islam is in fact, the more terrifying, because they have no conscience telling them what they are doing is wrong...nor do they feel they face any consequences of their actions, but rather a prize... ...but you go ahead and keep fearing the so-called "Christians" who commit terrorism in the world...(whoever they are and wherever they may be...) [/quote] In modern times, Christians have been influenced by secular trends toward "human rights" and what not. But during the height of "Christian civilization," where was the "brotherly chastisement" over people being burned at the stake, Jews being persecuted, Muslims being killed in the name of Christ? Lynching used to be an acceptable practice among many American Christians. Where did such barbarism come from? And did it suddenly disappear? It was not Christianity that changed the barbarism of the West. It was secular "Enlightenment" (and I put that in quotation marks, because my point is not about whether or not the so-called "Enlightenment" was actually enlightened). Before the West was secularized, Christians could be just as barbaric as Muslims. But now that Christians live in a secularized society, they are shocked at the barbarism in non-secularized Muslim countries, as though such barbarism were uniquely Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Era Might' date='24 February 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1267042110' post='2062516'] How useful it is. Christians can destroy peoples, wage war against them, colonize them for centuries, and then dismiss it all simply by admitting that they weren't acting according to Christ's teaching. [/quote] It's not wrong to wage a just war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Era Might' date='24 February 2010 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1267045760' post='2062575'] In modern times, yes, Christians have been influenced by secular trends toward "human rights" and what not. But during the height of "Christian civilization," where was the "brotherly chastisement" over people being burned at the stake, Jews being persecuted, Muslims being killed in the name of Christ? Lynching used to be an acceptable practice among many American Christians. Where did such barbarism come from? And did it suddenly disappear? It was not Christianity that changed the barbarism of the West. It was secular "Enlightenment." Before the West was secularized, Christians could be just as barbaric as Muslims. But now that Christians live in a secularized society, they are shocked at the barbarism in non-secularized Muslim countries, as though such barbarism was uniquely Muslim. [/quote] I'd like to use Catherine's point from a previous thread in regards to the actions of Christians in the past: [quote name='CatherineM' date='22 February 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1266873679' post='2061326'] I never think that it is wise to try to judge the morality of a justice system so far removed from out time, place and culture. We no longer hang people who steal horses. When we did it was because if you stole a man's horse, you were potentially sentencing him to death. We no longer execute people who committed crimes while insane. We understand mental illnesses better. We no longer burn heretics at the stake. We no longer banish those with leprosy. That was done in a time and place when their danger to society is different than it is today. When the codes in the Old Testament were written the culture was so different, it might as well have been on a different planet. Life ended much easier, peoples' values were different. I can just imagine how people will look at our moral codes in 100 or 1000 years from now. [/quote] ...and I don't think you should give "Englightenment" all the credit, Jesus was after all, Our Savior back then too...I'm sure He influenced a great many peoples...and not everything about Christians from the past life is found in your history books... Heck, I'm in a college history class, and you should see how slanted everything from the past is presented...we Catholic Christians were the Big Bad Wolf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='24 February 2010 - 04:17 PM' timestamp='1267046259' post='2062579'] I'd like to use Catherine's point from a previous thread in regards to the actions of Christians in the past: ...and I don't think you should give "Englightenment" all the credit, Jesus was after all, Our Savior back then too...I'm sure He influenced a great many peoples...and not everything about Christians from the past life is found in your history books... Heck, I'm in a college history class, and you should see how slanted everything from the past is presented...we Catholic Christians were the Big Bad Wolf... [/quote] I do not consider "Christian civilization" something to be proud of. And not because I am anti-Christ. Just the opposite. I consider "Christian civilization" such a shame precisely because I believe that the Gospel is so pure, and Christians have done everything they could to blacken it. Our Lord asks in the Gospel: "...when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?" (Luke 18:8). It sure is hard to believe in Christ given the shameful history of Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 February 2010 - 07:01 AM' timestamp='1267041712' post='2062508'] As I told Lilllabettt the difference between Christianity and Islam is that Christ never advocated violence in order to bring people to faith, while Mohammed did. [/quote] Yet how often do people justify their statements against Muslims and their faith based on the fact that Christians should enforce their beliefs on others bluntly, even if it means being persecuted. I know there is a difference between the sword of steel and the sword of the tongue but it's essentially the same in as far as it's either right or it's wrong. It seems the opinion changes depending on the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Era Might' date='24 February 2010 - 04:24 PM' timestamp='1267046666' post='2062586'] I do not consider "Christian civilization" something to be proud of. [/quote] I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='24 February 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1267046949' post='2062593'] I do. [/quote] Did you really need to waste bandwidth to tell me that, as though I didn't already know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 [img]http://maryvictrix.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/maria-rosa-lepanto.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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