Starvation And Theft

[dairygirl4u2c]

it seems the contra arguments boil down to this verse, for the most part, per anything concrete other than 'it seems sinful to me' etc etc.

1 Peter 2:
"13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well."

it does say it, pretty unequivically- "every ordinance". and, a person is compelled to lay down their life, for God, in certain circumstances. i do like that you've clarfied for me, 'to lay down one's life rather than sin', though, cause that does help clarify when one should lay down one's life, and i see how it could compel one to lay down and die than 'steal'.

but, im not sure these are the circumstances. this reminds me of the times people base so much on so little, expecting something so scant as those couple of sentences above, to lead one into whether they should die or not, countless numbers of people dying. im not sure i could live with that, if there's a chance it's wrong to read so much into that, based on a few sentences. it's easier to say that he's speaking too unequivically, not even that the bible isn't necessarily infallible. it's argubly a matter of speaking, like we all do from time to time, too unequivically when it's something that almost always is true "dont kill" etc etc. for example, it's not like he expounded what happens if the laws cause you to sin (reading those verses might lead on to think that it's allowed... though i dont know of the verses that say you must lay down your life for not violating a law that causes sin. if it's right though, that there is no counter verses explicitly-- then this verse could be said to contradict your idea that we are to die for sin. i suppose common sense might say we are not to sin if the law says to, but, argubly, but still.), or if the laws are deadly-- arguably, he's just talking as a general point, follow the laws even if ya dont like it. eg, no jay walking even when it's clear there's no harm in it, use 'set backs' on your house or follow zoning laws even though they are a burden and infringe one's 'liberty', or something like that. etc etc
for me, it's a matter of which way do the 'deferences' go? especially given the scant verses, and lack of expounding on it.
but you have some compelling points worth reflecting on.

Edited March 3, 2010 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

plus how the verses are in the middle of stuff that doesn't have to do specifically with the verses, just sort of an interjection. often called 'dicta' to legalists, cause it hasnt and wasn't intended to be expounded upon, so perhaps can't be taken as completely literal just because it's stated in a litereal sort of way.

[BibleReader]

You are welcome to read the surrounding verses and see where they fall in story, or law, or whatever.

16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.
17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.
18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.
20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.
21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

I think the context here provides that any amount of suffering for even the smallest of things is worthwhile in God's eyes. Even to the point of injustice, we are to obey. Verse 17 "Fear God, Honor the king," also seems to reaffirm that God is supreme. I guess your thoughts of watching people die being rather uncomfortable really makes me think of Gandhi. (I think I spelled it right) He, and his followers, were willing to die by performing legal acts against the government. Don't get me wrong, not everything they did was "legal" but many were. They believed in passive resistance and change by doing what was right over what was easy. Many people were battered and killed under his following, just to show what was right (in their eyes).

So many people find this great comfort in dieing for freedom, the idea that you can do as you please, or have a say in what happens. That going on to destroy tyranny and other injustices is justified in the name of freedom. Just think how much more honor is in dieing for the sake of what is right and justified in the mind of God. Even the petty things.

[BibleReader]

DairyGirl...


Are you a girl?...It seems to be a common topic among the threads; the suspense is killing me.