Carmel Of Jesus Mary And Joseph

[miles Christi]

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Does anyone know of Carmels in Europe that have the traditional liturgy (like the Carmel of Jesus, Mary and Joseph in NE and PA)? Spain or Italy maybe?
I know there are the M. Maravillas Carmelites in Spain who are quite traditional but I don’t know about their liturgy… Traditional Latin Mass or NO?

[Queen'sDaughter]

Here is their daily schedule:

[center]4:30 Rise[/center]
[center]5:00 Lauds[/center]
[center]5:20-6:20 Mental Prayer in Choir[/center]
[center]6:45 Terce[/center]
[center]7:00 Holy Sacrifice of the Mass/ Thanksgiving[/center]
[center]8:45 Work[/center]
[center]11:00 Sext & Examen[/center]
[center]11:25 Dinner[/center]
[center]12:15 Recreation[/center]
[center]1:20 Quiet time[/center]
[center]2:20 None[/center]
[center]2:30 Holy Rosary[/center]
[center]3:00 Spiritual Reading[/center]
[center]3:40 Work[/center]
[center]5:00 Vespers[/center]
[center]5:20-6:20 Mental prayer in Choir[/center]
[center]6:25 Supper[/center]
[center]7:15 Recreation[/center]
[center]8:20 Compline/Quiet time[/center]
[center]9:30 Matins[/center]
[center]10:30 Retire[/center]

[left]Please keep my friend who is a postulant at this Carmel in your prayers as she prepares to receive the habit this Monday.[/left]

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Freudentaumel' timestamp='1336543996' post='2429007']
[url="http://airmaria.com/?sn=132&vp=28109&prefx=finews&plyrnb=1&ttl=Fi"]Here is a video[/url] of a girl entering the Carmel of Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
[/quote]
Wow! Very wonderful to see!! Here it is on youtube. This Carmel usually doesn't allow pictures online, etc. but they must have made an exception for the FI Friars.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDu_m-2T6-0&list=PLFC202F8E34C2CC69[/media]

You can see how they added a second row on both sides of the choir to fit everyone. I believe this girl makes 35 there.

It's interesting to see how an entrance is there, as each Carmel does this a little differently (there's nothing in the Ceremonial on entrances) The consecration prayer they say is nice, which I've never heard of in any other Carmel. At the beginning here they are singing the [url="http://romaaeterna.jp/liber1/lu1314.html"][i]O Gloriosa[/i][/url] too (set to a different tune than in the Teresa of the Andes movie )

[quote name='reminiscere' timestamp='1336579611' post='2429122']
Yes. AFAIK, the Mexican Carmels do this, except for the externs who are veiled after First Profession.
[/quote]

The French ones do too .. No black veil until Solemn Profession.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='miles Christi' timestamp='1337072985' post='2430817']
+

Does anyone know of Carmels in Europe that have the traditional liturgy (like the Carmel of Jesus, Mary and Joseph in NE and PA)? Spain or Italy maybe?
I know there are the M. Maravillas Carmelites in Spain who are quite traditional but I don’t know about their liturgy… Traditional Latin Mass or NO?
[/quote]

That's a good question that I wish I could answer on the traditional Carmels in Spain, but here's a thread on some traditional French Carmels with a little on their Liturgy, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/113796-traditional-carmel-with-latin-and-strict-papal-enclosure/"]http://www.phatmass....apal-enclosure/[/url] She also mentioned a very strict Carmel in Italy.

You'll have to PM Studiumecclesiae to get more details, but this is her blog which has a little on the Carmel in Alencon (1990) [url="http://salveregina.over-blog.com/article-carmel-d-alen-on-ville-natale-de-sainte-therese-de-l-enfant-jesus-77457132.html"]http://salveregina.o...s-77457132.html[/url] and Meaux (1991) [url="http://salveregina.over-blog.com/article-carmel-de-pie-ix-a-meaux-en-region-parisienne-fidele-aux-constitutions-et-le-miracle-eucharistiq-82645176.html"]http://salveregina.o...q-82645176.html[/url]

Edited May 15, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[Quaesivi Vultuum Tuum]

They have also the carmel of Oloron (the sister of one of my friend is entered since few month); and the carmel of creteil.
The carmel of Ars is also a carmel of strict observance.

[miles Christi]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1337102828' post='2430925']
That's a good question that I wish I could answer on the traditional Carmels in Spain, but here's a thread on some traditional French Carmels with a little on their Liturgy, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/113796-traditional-carmel-with-latin-and-strict-papal-enclosure/"]http://www.phatmass....apal-enclosure/[/url] She also mentioned a very strict Carmel in Italy.

You'll have to PM Studiumecclesiae to get more details, but this is her blog which has a little on the Carmel in Alencon (1990) [url="http://salveregina.over-blog.com/article-carmel-d-alen-on-ville-natale-de-sainte-therese-de-l-enfant-jesus-77457132.html"]http://salveregina.o...s-77457132.html[/url] and Meaux (1991) [url="http://salveregina.over-blog.com/article-carmel-de-pie-ix-a-meaux-en-region-parisienne-fidele-aux-constitutions-et-le-miracle-eucharistiq-82645176.html"]http://salveregina.o...q-82645176.html[/url]
[/quote]

+

Thanks so much for posting those links Chiqui!! Unfortunately though I don't think France is a viable option for me at this point, unless that is where our good Lord wants me...

I guess I'll just have to try and reach out to this Hungarian girl who I heard is in one of the M.Maravillas Carmels in Spain. I only know her Mom, and she actually showed me some photos of her and her Sisters... I'll try and post some of the pics but since these are photos of photos the quality isn't so great...

[AveMariaPurissima]

[quote name='Freudentaumel' timestamp='1336543996' post='2429007']
[url="http://airmaria.com/?sn=132&vp=28109&prefx=finews&plyrnb=1&ttl=Fi"]Here is a video[/url] of a girl entering the Carmel of Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
[/quote]
What a beautiful video! Thanks so much for posting it!
This Carmel seems like a wonderful community.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='miles Christi' timestamp='1337520475' post='2432925']
+

Thanks so much for posting those links Chiqui!! Unfortunately though I don't think France is a viable option for me at this point, unless that is where our good Lord wants me...

I guess I'll just have to try and reach out to this Hungarian girl who I heard is in one of the M.Maravillas Carmels in Spain. I only know her Mom, and she actually showed me some photos of her and her Sisters... I'll try and post some of the pics but since these are photos of photos the quality isn't so great...
[/quote]
+ Praised be Jesus Christ!

I just posted this in the Nuns Picture thread but I'm posting it here too :j Have you heard of the Croatian actress Edita Majic who entered and made solemn vows at the Carmel of San Jose in Avila? Here's my thread on her, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/109813-croatian-actress-professes-solemn-vows-in-avila/"]http://www.phatmass....-vows-in-avila/[/url]

I found this searching through Carmelite videos on youtube, but otherwise I don't think I would ever have known .. but since you're not too far from there. She explains that she entered in Spain because there were no Carmels that follow the old Constitutions in her country. In one of the articles there, or at least in another one I read, it says another girl entered there after her from Croatia too. Also, in the videos you can see a bit of their liturgy with the bishop of Avila.

Also, in case you weren't aware, the way to find the Carmels throughout the world under the old Constitutions (1990) is by looking up their locations here, [url="http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/"]http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/[/url] (to the left under Nuns, addresses) and the 1990s are marked with three stars like this *** Then the few with two stars are the ones under the 1990s in all things, except that they are under the jurisdiction of the OCD Father General. There are a couple I've noticed with one star, and I don't know what that means, but I am certain about the others.

There's a 1990 [url="http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/index.php?Seccion=europaodir&CodNacion=89"]Carmel in Slovenia[/url] founded by Kirk Edge in the UK, [url="http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/"]http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/[/url] The liturgy in Kirk Edge is mostly all English I believe, but it could be different at their foundation.

[quote name='Quaesivi Vultuum Tuum' timestamp='1337104840' post='2430947']
They have also the carmel of Oloron (the sister of one of my friend is entered since few month); and the carmel of creteil.
The carmel of Ars is also a carmel of strict observance.
[/quote]

These along with Alencon and Cognac have the *** next to their names on the address list .. except for Creteil, which has one star. Still don't know what that means, but someone who's been there has told me they are very traditional (double grilles, cover their faces at Communion).

That is neat you know of someone who just entered in Oloron!

Edited May 31, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[emmaberry]

[b] [color=#272727][url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/user/4876-chiquitunga/"]Chiquitunga[/url]: [/color][/b][color=#272727]what do you mean they cover their faces at communion? I have only been to the Sunday mass of the Arlington Carmelites, and I have not seen them do this. I thought they were 1990, but maybe they are not.[/color][b][color=#272727] [/color][/b]

[color=#272727]*edited to un-bold my comment[/color]

Edited May 31, 2012 by emmaberry

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1338438222' post='2438463']
[b] [color=#272727][url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/user/4876-chiquitunga/"]Chiquitunga[/url]: [/color][/b][color=#272727]what do you mean they cover their faces at communion? I have only been to the Sunday mass of the Arlington Carmelites, and I have not seen them do this. I thought they were 1990, but maybe they are not.[/color][b][color=#272727] [/color][/b]

[color=#272727]*edited to un-bold my comment[/color]
[/quote]

Arlington is under the 1991s, but Dallas Carmel, which is about a 1/2 hour away, is under the 1990s. By covering their faces I mean, they would have what they call a Communion veil on which has a flap that can be flapped (if that's the right word :j) over their faces as they approach the Communion window, so they won't be visible to the public. Here's a Carmelite doll to model for you (made by the nuns in Alexandria, SD)

[img]http://i56.tinypic.com/dzi3it.png[/img]

Edited May 31, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[miles Christi]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1338436143' post='2438440']
+ Praised be Jesus Christ!

I just posted this in the Nuns Picture thread but I'm posting it here too :j Have you heard of the Croatian actress Edita Majic who entered and made solemn vows at the Carmel of San Jose in Avila? Here's my thread on her, [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/109813-croatian-actress-professes-solemn-vows-in-avila/"]http://www.phatmass....-vows-in-avila/[/url]

I found this searching through Carmelite videos on youtube, but otherwise I don't think I would ever have known .. but since you're not too far from there. She explains that she entered in Spain because there were no Carmels that follow the old Constitutions in her country. In one of the articles there, or at least in another one I read, it says another girl entered there after her from Croatia too. Also, in the videos you can see a bit of their liturgy with the bishop of Avila.

Also, in case you weren't aware, the way to find the Carmels throughout the world under the old Constitutions (1990) is by looking up their locations here, [url="http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/"]http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/[/url] (to the left under Nuns, addresses) and the 1990s are marked with three stars like this *** Then the few with two stars are the ones under the 1990s in all things, except that they are under the jurisdiction of the OCD Father General. There are a couple I've noticed with one star, and I don't know what that means, but I am certain about the others.

There's a 1990 [url="http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/index.php?Seccion=europaodir&CodNacion=89"]Carmel in Slovenia[/url] founded by Kirk Edge in the UK, [url="http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/"]http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/[/url] The liturgy in Kirk Edge is mostly all English I believe, but it could be different at their foundation.



These along with Alencon and Cognac have the *** next to their names on the address list .. except for Creteil, which has one star. Still don't know what that means, but someone who's been there has told me they are very traditional (double grilles, cover their faces at Communion).

That is neat you know of someone who just entered in Oloron!
[/quote]

+

Hola Chiqui,
Thank you for all the info - I vaguely remembered seeing your posts about the Croatian actress entering a Spanish Carmel but it's nice to see it again for sure. I always discover something new that I haven't noticed before...
I must confess that I've been lurking on Phatmass for a long while before deciding to 'speak up' so I actually did see the one about the different constitutions as well - it's certainly great to have this insight.
I'm really hoping for a list though that would differentiate communities based on their liturgical rites (NO, Trad. or even Eastern) - I think that'd be super useful. But then again I sometimes find myself too caught up with the externals too...

I also just wanted to say that I really appreciate everyone's wisdom here that you all so generously share here. Thank you, thank you, thank you EVERYONE!!! Köszönöm szépen MINDENKINEK!!

cute demo on the veil Chiqui!!!

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='miles Christi' timestamp='1338459837' post='2438604']I'm really hoping for a list though that would differentiate communities based on their liturgical rites (NO, Trad. or even Eastern)[/quote]

We should go on a grand tour of Spain to all the 1990 Carmels (or all of them) to find out! And then make the list ourselves That would be super fun!

No but seriously (although I would love to do the tour!!) one thing you could try is to search for each one by name individually. Or search for priests in Spain who offer the Latin Mass .. or Eastern rite, etc.

Here's the blog of chaplain of the Incarnation in Avila, [url="http://nicolas-capellanencarnacionavila.blogspot.com/"]http://nicolas-capel...a.blogspot.com/[/url] You could even email him to ask about other Carmels. My guess is that the majority of the M. Maravillas/1990 Carmels have the Ordinary Form Spanish Mass (with some Latin) and either a Spanish or Latin/some Office. If you find out anything, let us know!

But yes, it's easy to get caught up in externals .. "What God wills, as God wills, when God wills." - St. Maravillas

Here are a few videos from the 1990 Carmel in Zaraus (no I didn't go through the list A-Z and only found this on Zaurus :j just happened to have found this)

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmAts2movX0&feature=relmfu[/media]

They have a Communion rail

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIX9PimtCII&feature=relmfu[/media]

Edited June 1, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[Chiquitunga]

¡Alabado sea Jesucristo! So in searching for something else, I stumbled across this blog with a list of all (perhaps or close to) the EF Masses offered in Spain - [url="http://accionliturgica.blogspot.com/"]http://accionliturgica.blogspot.com/[/url] Several of the places are at Carmels (all are 1990) although not daily.

So to answer your first question, miles Christi, it seems that no, there are no other Carmels (at least in Spain & France we know) that have the EF Mass every day like the Carmels of JMJ in the US.

So far the one that comes closest to that is what we have heard from Studiumecclesiae [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/123048-tridentine-carmels/page__st__20#entry2467915"]here[/url] about Alençon (1990) having it 3 - 4 times a week

Okay, going to come back and post here again ..

[Orans]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1338572282' post='2439448']
We should go on a grand tour of Spain to all the 1990 Carmels (or all of them) to find out! And then make the list ourselves That would be super fun!

Here are a few videos from the 1990 Carmel in Zaraus (no I didn't go through the list A-Z and only found this on Zaurus :j just happened to have found this)

[media][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmAts2movX0&feature=relmfu[/media[/media]]

They have a Communion rail

[media][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIX9PimtCII&feature=relmfu[/media[/media]]
[/quote]

I've visited this Carmel of Zarautz, in the North of Spain years ago. I was going to enter another cloistered order and needed the Liber Usualis -the Gregorian chant book- So I visited a few contemplative monasteries to ask for a spare book. This Sisters of Zarautz gave me the book, in very good condition, for free. They were lovely.

As I watched the video of this postulant who entered on October 2011, I found also another interesting interview with a 37 yo surgeon at the University of Navarre, who was to enter the Carmel of Zarautz on August 11, 2012.

See the link [url="http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffeature%3Dendscreen%26NR%3D1%26v%3DfatenrM79kA&act=url"]http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffeature%3Dendscreen%26NR%3D1%26v%3DfatenrM79kA&act=url[/url]

Below the screen you can see the google translation of the background and story of this -now- postulant at Zarautz Carmel.

Orans

[Chiquitunga]

Oh my goodness... Orans, that is so wonderful to hear about! [i]How amazing that you visited there!!! [/i]And thank you so much for sharing that video you found! I read the whole story and love it What a testimony of God's grace. Thank you so much again!!

So I just did a quick google search for Carmelitas Zarautz and found this, [url="http://carmelitasdescalzasdezarautz.blogspot.com/"]http://carmelitasdes...z.blogspot.com/[/url] Google translate: [url="http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fcarmelitasdescalzasdezarautz.blogspot.com%2F"]http://translate.goo...z.blogspot.com/[/url] Our postulant here is now clothed and you can read a bit of her story there. And how interesting .. they are actually the relocated Carmel (in 1901) of Bordeaux, France (I thought Madre Pilar's veil looked more French!)