Fssp - Traditional Roman Rite

[KeenanParkerII]

I'm thinking of attending a traditional Mass in Vancouver, but I'd like to double check a few things. FSSP is in full communion with Rome right? and SSXP is not? Is attending a traditional mass a legitimate way of fulfilling our Sunday obligation? Is there anything I should know before attending a traditional mass, and which one of these missals should I become familiar with before going?

http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/TextContents/Index/4/SubIndex/66/TextIndex/17

Oh, and this is the Parish if anyone can tell me anything about it.

http://holyfamilyvancouver.ca/about/

Thanks

Edited February 13, 2010 by KeenanParkerII

[zunshynn]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='13 February 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1266090103' post='2056522']
I'm thinking of attending a traditional Mass in Vancouver, but I'd like to double check a few things. FSSP is in full communion with Rome right? and SSXP is not? Is attending a traditional mass a legitimate way of fulfilling our Sunday obligation? Is there anything I should know before attending a traditional mass, and which one of these missals should I become familiar with before going? [/quote]

Yes... the FSSP is totally in communion with Rome... the SSPX is not, unfortunately.

And an FSSP mass fulfills your Sunday Obligation just the same as an Novus Ordo Mass.

I'd recommend sitting a bit towards the back so you can follow along with everyone's posture, (although you may see different people doing different things... for example, some like to kneel during the epistle, others sit... and that's fine, there aren't really rubrics for the faithful's posture just customs.

You probably won't "become familiar" with the missal too well before going... it is a bit hard to get the hang of. But it would be kind of good to look over it. Overall, it is similar in form to the NO... The Mass of the Catechumens is from the beginning of Mass until the Creed (There is an epistle and a Gospel reading, which will both be recited or sung at the altar in Latin, although they may repeat them in English before the homily) and the Mass of the Faithful is basically the Eucharistic Canon until the dismissal.

There's a good chance they'll have little red booklets there you can follow too that have the ordinary... the parts that are always the same. Whatever you feel comfortable doing... you don't "have" to follow it in the missal... I prefer to just watch the priest and listen to the Latin, personally.

Also, in the rubrics for the 1962 missal the priest cannot give blessings to people during the rite of communion, so it is best to remain in your seat during communion (I don't know if you usually go up for a blessing or not at the Novus Ordo, which is why I mention it.)

enjoy it! Are you going to a high mass or a low mass?

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]Yes... the FSSP is totally in communion with Rome... the SSPX is not, unfortunately.

And an FSSP mass fulfills your Sunday Obligation just the same as an Novus Ordo Mass.

I'd recommend sitting a bit towards the back so you can follow along with everyone's posture, (although you may see different people doing different things... for example, some like to kneel during the epistle, others sit... and that's fine, there aren't really rubrics for the faithful's posture just customs.

You probably won't "become familiar" with the missal too well before going... it is a bit hard to get the hang of. But it would be kind of good to look over it. Overall, it is similar in form to the NO... The Mass of the Catechumens is from the beginning of Mass until the Creed (There is an epistle and a Gospel reading, which will both be recited or sung at the altar in Latin, although they may repeat them in English before the homily) and the Mass of the Faithful is basically the Eucharistic Canon until the dismissal.

There's a good chance they'll have little red booklets there you can follow too that have the ordinary... the parts that are always the same. Whatever you feel comfortable doing... you don't "have" to follow it in the missal... I prefer to just watch the priest and listen to the Latin, personally.

Also, in the rubrics for the 1962 missal the priest cannot give blessings to people during the rite of communion, so it is best to remain in your seat during communion (I don't know if you usually go up for a blessing or not at the Novus Ordo, which is why I mention it.)

enjoy it! Are you going to a high mass or a low mass?[/quote]

Someone on fisheaters was saying that attending an SSPX mass also fulfills that obligation, but they seem to be waging a holy war between the traditional diocesans and the SSPX supporters there, so I'm not sure. Do you know anything about that??

I'm pretty used to sitting in the back and trying to follow the postures, being new in the Church and all, so that should come pretty easy. And I have nooo idea if it is a low Mass or high Mass; in fact, I don't even know what the difference it.

Just while we're on the topic, does anyone find the schism developing between the traditionalist movement and what they would call "modernists" really sad? I don't want anything to do with any movement that rejects the Pope; he is the inheritor of St.Peter's authority without a doubt. But the traditionalist movement is so vibrant. It's attracting not just young people, but genuinely passionate people. I'd really like to see this revival unified with the Church.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='13 February 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1266092492' post='2056549']
Someone on fisheaters was saying that attending an SSPX mass also fulfills that obligation, but they seem to be waging a holy war between the traditional diocesans and the SSPX supporters there, so I'm not sure. Do you know anything about that?? [/quote]

No, an SSPX mass does not fulfill one's obligation, UNLESS there was some crazy circumstance where there was an SSPX chapel, but no Catholic Church within a reasonable distance. I don't think anyone is likely to find themselves in that situation though.

[quote]And I have nooo idea if it is a low Mass or high Mass; in fact, I don't even know what the difference it. [/quote]

It looks like, based on their schedule, if you go at 10.30 it will be a high mass, and if you go at 8 it will be a low mass. The main difference is that a high mass is sung by the priest, and a low mass is recited... High Mass is also likely to have incense. At the high mass the priest also processes from the back, at a low mass, he comes in directly from the sacristy, carrying the chalice during the procession. There are some other differences, but those are the obvious ones.

[quote]Just while we're on the topic, does anyone find the schism developing between the traditionalist movement and what they would call "modernists" really sad? I don't want anything to do with any movement that rejects the Pope; he is the inheritor of St.Peter's authority without a doubt. But the traditionalist movement is so vibrant. It's attracting not just young people, but genuinely passionate people. I'd really like to see this revival unified with the Church.
[/quote]

Well, it is sad, but fortunately, Pope Benedict's motu proprio appears to have put a halt to that division from at least developing further. He is also working hard to come to an agreement with the leaders of the SSPX... which, unfortunately doesn't seem to be making a lot of progress, but I think it's too early to say what will be the outcome. My personal opinion is that the resurgence of the Traditional mass is going to be key in unifying the Church as a whole.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='13 February 2010 - 03:32 PM' timestamp='1266093169' post='2056559']
No, an SSPX mass does not fulfill one's obligation, UNLESS there was some crazy circumstance where there was an SSPX chapel, but no Catholic Church within a reasonable distance. I don't think anyone is likely to find themselves in that situation though.
[/quote]

That's actually incorrect. Going to an SSPX Mass [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/01/quaeritur-mass-obligation-and-sspx-chapels/"]does[/url] indeed fulfill one's obligation, though it is not as good idea to receive Communion there.

[Resurrexi]

Keenan, I would suggest going to a High Mass first. You'll find it a lot easier to follow along, and you'll probably also enjoy the beautiful music.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='13 February 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1266092492' post='2056549']
Just while we're on the topic, does anyone find the schism developing between the traditionalist movement and what they would call "modernists" really sad? I don't want anything to do with any movement that rejects the Pope; he is the inheritor of St.Peter's authority without a doubt. But the traditionalist movement is so vibrant. It's attracting not just young people, but genuinely passionate people. I'd really like to see this revival unified with the Church.
[/quote]

Many if not most of the members of the movement for the extraordinary form of the Mass are completely subject to the Pope. Communities like the Fraternity of St. Peter and the Institute of Christ the King are examples of this.

[KeenanParkerII]

High Mass definitely works for me, it's better for my schedule too. I can't receive the Eucharist as it is, so no problem there. Even if I could, this is an FSSP parish. Woo ^__^

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]Many if not most of the members of the movement for the extraordinary form of the Mass are completely subject to the Pope. Communities like the Fraternity of St. Peter and the Institute of Christ the King are examples of this. [/quote]

I didn't know this! Like Zun, I have pretty high hopes for the extraordinary form of Mass. Even with the new NO missal being more true to the Latin, there's a lot of hope for the future of the Church. I didn't know about the Institute of Christ the King, but there website is pretty cool.

Do you guys know why a lot of traditionalists seem rather dead set against the Jesuit order?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='13 February 2010 - 04:01 PM' timestamp='1266094865' post='2056602']
Do you guys know why a lot of traditionalists seem rather dead set against the Jesuit order?
[/quote]

And justly so.

The Society of Jesus was awesome back in the day, but now it's just messed up.

[Tridenteen]

JMJ
Well, I looked at the website. FSSP communities tend to borrow one another's priest for missions and retreats, so I thought I might know the priest...and I do!
<big clap> Fr.Erik Duprey says a gorgeous Mass, and is an amazing preacher. ALthough, several mums from our community admit they just like listening to his AWESOME accent! The FSSP Mass follows the 1962 missal.If you would like I can make a cheet sheet to give you the general concept of what in the world is going on. You should dress nice, but don't worry, formal is not nesassary! Don't leave the Church until the song is over, if it is a High Mass. If it is a Low Mass, stay until Prayers at the Ending Prayers at the Foot of the Altar are over. Don't sit by a family with a lot of children, this way you won't get run over when the baby needs to be taken to the cry room !!![img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.gif[/img] If you have any other questions, I can guarentee you, most FSSP churches are the same. ICK Masses are a little bit different, but not much. I hope you have a very nice experience!

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]And justly so.

The Society of Jesus was awesome back in the day, but now it's just messed up.[/quote]

But what about Father Pacwa?

[quote]JMJ
Well, I looked at the website. FSSP communities tend to borrow one another's priest for missions and retreats, so I thought I might know the priest...and I do!
<big clap> Fr.Erik Duprey says a gorgeous Mass, and is an amazing preacher. ALthough, several mums from our community admit they just like listening to his AWESOME accent! The FSSP Mass follows the 1962 missal.If you would like I can make a cheet sheet to give you the general concept of what in the world is going on. You should dress nice, but don't worry, formal is not nesassary! Don't leave the Church until the song is over, if it is a High Mass. If it is a Low Mass, stay until Prayers at the Ending Prayers at the Foot of the Altar are over. Don't sit by a family with a lot of children, this way you won't get run over when the baby needs to be taken to the cry room !!! If you have any other questions, I can guarentee you, most FSSP churches are the same. ICK Masses are a little bit different, but not much. I hope you have a very nice experience![/quote]

Cool! I'm going to see a Priest who did a Mass with someone from PM. I definitely won't leave early. If anything, I like to stay later out of respect, and I would love a cheat sheet. I can't tell you how useful a basic cheat sheet would have been when first attending Mass.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='KeenanParkerII' date='13 February 2010 - 04:40 PM' timestamp='1266097217' post='2056624']
But what about Father Pacwa?
[/quote]

Fr. Pacwa is one of the few good Jesuits today. He gave an awesome talk at a pre-Lenten retreat I attended last year.

[tinytherese]

From what I've been told, Jesuit priests are known for being liberal. I don't know why though.

As far as SSPX goes, from what I've been told their sacraments are valid, but Jesus isn't happy to be there in those circumstances. This could also be scandalous for a faithful Catholic to attend their masses, because it could give other Catholics the idea that this group is acceptable in the eyes of the Church.

It really is sad about the tention between the radical traditionalists and those who prefer the novus ordo. I really adore the extraordinary form. Far more beautiful and reverent. I think that the issue with the rad-trads are that they start out being offended by all of the modernist crud and irreverent masses where the congregation don't seem to give a darn, which is good that they realize that these are problems. Unfortunately, the good desires of wanting beauty and reverence get taken too far and then it seems to tranform into self-righteousness. Its just what that coined phrase is, "Holier than the pope." I'm a former rad-trad and I can tell you that these groups can brain-wash you into getting involved with them. In my case, I honestly wasn't trying to be prideful and acted out of ignorance. It sure can be hard when you're not around decent Catholics who can help give you encouragement and advice. I wish that I could have gotten onto phatmass sooner so that I could have been spared from all of that. Just don't get involved with the "Fatima Center" whose leader is Fr. Nicholas Grunner. That's how I got in trouble. Thankfully, I made a vocation visit with the Benedictine Sisters of Mary, Queen of Apostles- one of the few communities which have the extraordinary form and are in union with Rome. Mother Therese set me straight.

[KeenanParkerII]

[quote]From what I've been told, Jesuit priests are known for being liberal. I don't know why though.

As far as SSPX goes, from what I've been told their sacraments are valid, but Jesus isn't happy to be there in those circumstances. This could also be scandalous for a faithful Catholic to attend their masses, because it could give other Catholics the idea that this group is acceptable in the eyes of the Church.

It really is sad about the tention between the radical traditionalists and those who prefer the novus ordo. I really adore the extraordinary form. Far more beautiful and reverent. I think that the issue with the rad-trads are that they start out being offended by all of the modernist crud and irreverent masses where the congregation don't seem to give a darn, which is good that they realize that these are problems. Unfortunately, the good desires of wanting beauty and reverence get taken too far and then it seems to tranform into self-righteousness. Its just what that coined phrase is, "Holier than the pope." I'm a former rad-trad and I can tell you that these groups can brain-wash you into getting involved with them. In my case, I honestly wasn't trying to be prideful and acted out of ignorance. It sure can be hard when you're not around decent Catholics who can help give you encouragement and advice. I wish that I could have gotten onto phatmass sooner so that I could have been spared from all of that. Just don't get involved with the "Fatima Center" whose leader is Fr. Nicholas Grunner. That's how I got in trouble. Thankfully, I made a vocation visit with the Benedictine Sisters of Mary, Queen of Apostles- one of the few communities which have the extraordinary form and are in union with Rome. Mother Therese set me straight. [/quote]

So, the FSSP are the Jedi knights of the Catholic Church, and the SSPX are the sith. I remember you saying you were once a radtrad, it's a good thing you're back. The concept of a continuous line of successors from St.Peter to Benedict XVI is one of the reasons I was drawn to conversion in the first place, so that's not going anywhere anytime soon..