Which Takes Precedence: Moral Law Or Form Of Government?

[Winchester]

Running out of batteries. Discuss.

[ThePenciledOne]

Moral Law.

[Nihil Obstat]

I don't quite understand the question, but I'm sure the answer is moral law.

[KnightofChrist]

Moral Law should form the form of Government.

[Winchester]

The issue is this: Can a Catholic appeal to the form of government as an excuse for not adhering to or attempting to makes laws adhere to Catholic Moral Theology?

I say no, but some Catholics are arguing "yes".

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 February 2010 - 05:34 PM' timestamp='1265578482' post='2052666']
The issue is this: Can a Catholic appeal to the form of government as an excuse for not adhering to or attempting to makes laws adhere to Catholic Moral Theology?
[/quote]
It really depends on how many big words you can use and how many ill-fated analogies you can attempt to adhere to your agrument, while appearing obtuse and dishonest, but claiming ambiguity and a quest for truth.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 February 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1265578482' post='2052666']
The issue is this: Can a Catholic appeal to the form of government as an excuse for not adhering to or attempting to makes laws adhere to Catholic Moral Theology?

I say no, but some Catholics are arguing "yes".
[/quote]
Some Catholics think that it's ok to put ice in their milk too. Srsly, wth?

"Separation of Church and state", the way it is understood today, is a crock.

[Winchester]

I can use lots of big words and I put ice cream in my milk.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 February 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1265579765' post='2052695']
I can use lots of big words and I put ice cream in my milk.
[/quote]
Weird. Although not heretical. Ice cubes in milk though? Just depraved.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 February 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1265578482' post='2052666']
The issue is this: Can a Catholic appeal to the form of government as an excuse for not adhering to or attempting to makes laws adhere to Catholic Moral Theology?

I say no . . .
[/quote]
I agree. The laws passed by human authority must conform to the natural moral law.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='07 February 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1265579342' post='2052678']
It really depends on how many big words you can use and how many ill-fated analogies you can attempt to adhere to your agrument, while appearing obtuse and dishonest, but claiming ambiguity and a quest for truth.
[/quote]



[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='07 February 2010 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1265579835' post='2052696']
Weird. Although not heretical. Ice cubes in milk though? Just depraved.
[/quote]
[i]Ice Cream[/i] you Canadian noob!
[img]http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/iconsandcuriosities/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/ice-cream-15.jpg[/img]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='07 February 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1265579394' post='2052679']
Some Catholics think that it's ok to put ice in their milk too. Srsly, wth?

"Separation of Church and state", the way it is understood today, is a crock.
[/quote]

Bl. Pius IX condemned separation of Church and state as an error (see [i]Syllabus of Errors[/i], 33).

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='07 February 2010 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1265580556' post='2052710']




[i]Ice Cream[/i] you Canadian noob!
[img]http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/iconsandcuriosities/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/ice-cream-15.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Yea, but originally [i]I[/i] was talking about ice cubes.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 February 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1265564588' post='2052534']
Running out of batteries. Discuss.
[/quote]
Obviously, the moral law.

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 February 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1265578482' post='2052666']
The issue is this: Can a Catholic appeal to the form of government as an excuse for not adhering to or attempting to makes laws adhere to Catholic Moral Theology?

I say no, but some Catholics are arguing "yes".
[/quote]
I presume you're referring here to the assertion, oft-repeated by the bleeding hearts on here, along the lines of "America is a secular democracy; therefore Catholics must not legally oppose abortion/gay marriage/government funding of abortion/etc."

That line is utter nonsense not only on the moral level, but on the legal and factual levels as well.

The idea that Americans are somehow forbidden from voting or supporting or opposing laws according to their moral principles as taught by the Church is absolute garbage, with no basis in reality.

Usually, "separation of church and state" (a phrase nowhere found in the U.S. Constitution) is piously invoked against those wishing to vote according to Catholic morality on issues such as abortion.
However, the much-abused establishment clause of the first amendment intended originally simply to prohibit the federal government from having the power to impose a national church on the individual states, and was interpreted as such until the 1940s. It was never intended to ban any and all moral considerations from law and government.

In fact, the founding fathers would be appalled at the notion that religious morality be banned from law and government.

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." ~ John Adams, October 11, 1798

The Church has not suggested, but commanded us as Catholics to work to make civil law in accord with the moral law, and to oppose such things as legalized abortion and homosexual "civil unions."

To say that we should abandon consideration of the moral law in political and legal matters in the name of "secular democracy" is neither Catholic nor patriotic, but a pathetic excuse by those so-called "Catholics" who are blindly loyal to social liberal ideology.