Christian Mysticism And Charismatic Experiences

[Shana]

Could someone clarify for me the relationship between Christian Mysticism and Charismatic Spirituality? How do they overlap, are there distinctions between the terms or do they mean the same thing? I've been having experiences of God which my Spiritual Director called mystical...the Holy Spirit moving me physically (e.g. being drawn toward the tabernacle...the Spirit moving my hands). I don't know whether or not this means I'm charismatic? I haven't received the gift of speaking in tongues. As I discern my vocation should I be limiting myself to charismatic orders or would what I'm experiencing now possibly be consistent with a vocation to a contemplative order? I feel very much attracted to a religious community that isn't charismatic per se and I don't know what to make of my mystical experiences in regards to this attraction. Any recommended resources? Thanks.

[jeffpugh]

Try a forum search. There have been quite a few topics on this.

[Apotheoun]

There is no real connection that I am aware of between the modern Charismatic movement and the mystical tradition of the Church (East or West).

[JimR-OCDS]

True, the Charismatic movement is not anyway connected to contemplative orders.

However, there are Charismatics that can receive the gift of contemplation. Contemplation is a gift
from God, and St Teresa of Avila says it is His decision on who he gives this gift to.

Many years ago when I first accepted Jesus into my life, I joined some Charismatic prayer groups.

It was very rewarding, but I felt I was drawn to something deeper than what Charismatic prayer
was taking me.

At that time, my priest friend told my wife and myself that if we grow spiritually, we will grow away
from Charismatic prayer groups. He was right. As we began contemplative prayer, the prayer groups became a distraction.

We eventually joined the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites, OCDS.

Anyway, the Discalced Carmelites are a contemplative order, as well as Benedictines and Trappist.

You can check them out and they're all over the world so they should have a monastery near you.

Jim

Edited February 6, 2010 by JimR-OCDS

[Slappo]

One thing to add about the Carmelitites is unlike the trappists and benedictines, if you want to leave a contemplative life but have an active ministry as well, there are Carmelite sisters that are not cloistered and still do public ministry, but at the same time follow the Carmelite charism of contemplative prayer.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Slappo' date='06 February 2010 - 04:07 PM' timestamp='1265486859' post='2052095']
One thing to add about the Carmelitites is unlike the trappists and benedictines, if you want to leave a contemplative life but have an active ministry as well, there are Carmelite sisters that are not cloistered and still do public ministry, but at the same time follow the Carmelite charism of contemplative prayer.
[/quote]

Correct. Some of the Carmelite Friars live in a monastery, but have outside ministries.

The Discalaced Carmelites in Brighton Mass, serve at parishes in the New England Area.

Jim

[Ephrem Augustine]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='06 February 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1265474283' post='2051985']
There is no real connection that I am aware of between the modern Charismatic movement and the mystical tradition of the Church (East or West).
[/quote]
I concur.

I made my way back into the Church through the Charismatic renewal, but the more I lived it, researched it, and experienced people involved in it for years, I really did wonder about the validity of it. Of course, I found too many of these people spent most of their time reading the bible alongside books by contemporary evangelical writers, while oftentimes ignoring the same aforementioned traditions.

Just to add, from the great Spiritual Writers Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross tried to teach people of placing less emphasis on these experiences as a proof or validation of God's presence in our life. Yet, the two are often to be described as given over to spiritual gifts.

Also, as I took a few courses over the years to research mysticism, I often found that many women mystics experienced a much more "sensual" sort of mysticism that you seem to describe. IF you read many men mystics, they tend to elaborate in categories and abstractions. So it doesn't seem too unusual to hear about that sort of thing. I do wonder, as I have, with many of these gifts associated with the charismatic renewal that, some people use these as an excuse to make a show and get attention, whereas many of these mystics, for centuries were quite content to enjoy this sort of dance with God in the sanctuary of their own heart.

[Shana]

Ephrem Augustine,
Yes, I confirm that my mystical experiences are sensual. Therefore in order to let someone see me when I pray like that I'd have to trust them a lot because I'd be in a very vulnerable place...letting Him love me like that. I don't want to focus too much on experiences if that would inhibit me from spiritual growth but at the same time if the Lord wants to bestow such gifts on me I don't want to feel inhibited or "quench the Spirit". I just don't know what to make of these mystical experiences in light of my attraction to an order that is not charismatic (just b/c I feel charismatics would be definitely open to this). Do you think what I'm experiencing now would be consistent with a vocation to a contemplative order with a more "traditional" spirituality? I just don't want to be a distraction or an oddball or anything like that.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Shana' date='06 February 2010 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1265502089' post='2052195']
Ephrem Augustine,
Yes, I confirm that my mystical experiences are sensual. Therefore in order to let someone see me when I pray like that I'd have to trust them a lot because I'd be in a very vulnerable place...letting Him love me like that. I don't want to focus too much on experiences if that would inhibit me from spiritual growth but at the same time if the Lord wants to bestow such gifts on me I don't want to feel inhibited or "quench the Spirit". I just don't know what to make of these mystical experiences in light of my attraction to an order that is not charismatic (just b/c I feel charismatics would be definitely open to this). Do you think what I'm experiencing now would be consistent with a vocation to a contemplative order with a more "traditional" spirituality? I just don't want to be a distraction or an oddball or anything like that.
[/quote]

These would be questions to discuss with your spiritual director.

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm not particularly comfortable with the Charismatic movement as a whole. I definitely appreciate the mystical tradition of some saints, although I also get uncomfortable when we start getting into prophecy and/or private revelations.

[Resurrexi]

I've never had a mystical experience or anything of the sort, but the saints who have are cool.

[JimR-OCDS]

The Charismatic movement is great especially for people who are new to the faith or returning Catholics
as I was.

Some of the most wonderful Masses I've attended were Charismatic Masses.

The love for God is so intense at these, its beyond words to describe.


BTW, I had a mystical experience before I knew what Charismatic movement was. However, it
was through that experience that Jesus led me back to the Church, via the Charismatic movement.

Remember, God lead we follow and how God leads one person, may not be right for another, but
let that person follow God's lead.

Jim

Edited February 7, 2010 by JimR-OCDS

[Slappo]

[quote name='Shana' date='06 February 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1265502089' post='2052195']
Ephrem Augustine,
Yes, I confirm that my mystical experiences are sensual. Therefore in order to let someone see me when I pray like that I'd have to trust them a lot because I'd be in a very vulnerable place...letting Him love me like that. I don't want to focus too much on experiences if that would inhibit me from spiritual growth but at the same time if the Lord wants to bestow such gifts on me I don't want to feel inhibited or "quench the Spirit". I just don't know what to make of these mystical experiences in light of my attraction to an order that is not charismatic (just b/c I feel charismatics would be definitely open to this). Do you think what I'm experiencing now would be consistent with a vocation to a contemplative order with a more "traditional" spirituality? I just don't want to be a distraction or an oddball or anything like that.
[/quote]

Well... the Charismatic movement is less than a hundred years old... but in the tradition of the Church there have been countless mystical experiences throughout the centuries, including sensual mystical experiences. Look at the experiences of St. Teresa of Avila, St. Faustina, St. John Vianney, et al.

[Rebecca2009]

I am definitely no expert on Catholic teaching regarding this, but here is a wonderful Catholic source for you.....


http://my.homewithgod.com/gertrude/book2/

Gertrude of Helfta, who had a very mystical, Bridal relationship with Christ. I love to read her writings. I love Jesus as my Bridegroom and St. Gertrude is very helpful to me. Also St. Mechtilde and others. I hope this helps you in some way. You're in my prayers! Jesus will surely be faithful to teach and guide you.

[Rebecca2009]

Here is a page with other links regarding St. Gertrude~

http://home.infionline.net/~ddisse/gertrud.html#anchor44204

God bless you, Heaven bless you Shana! HE loves YOU.