Widespread Education

[Era Might]

[quote name='Hassan' date='10 February 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1265826712' post='2054775']
A teacher and particularly professor has the authority they have because they are viewed as experts and hence respected.[/quote]
A teacher has the authority they have because they are in an institution that sets the rules. The modern teacher's "authority" is an institutional authority, not a moral or intellectual authority. There are many brilliant people working in schooling institutions. But the institutional authority that they hold only hinders their ability to wield moral and intellectual authority over their students. I have had professors whose intellectual excellence I have greatly respected...but it was not their institutional authority which won them my respect. I respected them in spite of their institutional authority, not because of it.

[quote]Guiding is fine to an extent, but at some point to master a subject you're probably going to have to memorize a large number of facts.[/quote]
Yes, you are going to have to memorize a lot of material. And nobody can "teach" you that material. You have to learn it for yourself. Even in the modern schooling institution, teachers do not "teach" us what we know, even though we believe that they do (and that false belief is one of the myths upon which modern schooling is built). Professors either rehash what you've already read on your own in the textbook, or else the professor discusses some further points beyond the basics that you've already learned through your own studying.

[quote]I'm in Russian language, Soviet/Post Soviet Politics, Occupation of Germany and the Beginings of the Cold War, International Conflict Proccess, amd Great Decisions. All of them have deal with subjects that require a great deal fact memorization. No matter how naturally curious I or any other student is, we aren't going to intuit that Stalin died in 1953. Critical thought and analysis does come in to play, but it does so as something to be done after you have mastered the raw factual data.[/quote]
Memorization is not done by a teacher. A teacher does not cause you to memorize something. Memorization is something that you do yourself. A guide/mentor/adviser is different from the modern "teacher." A guide/mentor/adviser is not there to deposit "information" into your brain as though you're a bank; the guide/mentor/adviser is there to dialogue with you, to assist you on your journey.

[quote]I don't know about your school but generally speaking learning outside the classroom is seen as a great thing.[/quote]
That's great. But the problem is still that this is taking place in "dorms." Dorms are part of the institution. What we need is for people to get together in the real world, outside of the schooling institution. Janitors and waitresses should be as welcome to the discussion of ideas as much as "intellectuals" are. Modern schools isolate people from the real world, thereby turning the discussion of ideas into a special privilege for "intellectuals."

[quote]Yeah, because an informed discussion is something that comes after you have some knowledge about what you're talking about.[/quote]
Everyone has something to talk about.

[quote]You can learn a lot talking about various topics over a beer/coffee/sleepless dorm night, but most people meeting there are undergraduates who are not experts in the field.[/quote]
You do not have to be an expert in a field to have meaningful discussions about that field. As Robin Williams says to Matt Damon in "Good Will Hunting," what's the use of talking if I can't learn anything from you that I can't read in some book? However, as I said before, guides are very important in life. A meaningful discussion does not require everyone (or even necessarily anyone) to be an expert in a particular field. Each person in the discussion has their own unique perspective and their own unique contributions. Each person can help guide the others in the way that they are able. If someone in the discussion is an expert in a particular field, then they can contribute that expertise. One of the problems with the modern school is that the teacher-student relationship is based on institutional authority, and it is nearly impossible to have a meaningful discussion in such an environment, because the teacher claims institutional authority within the discussion; for example, the teacher claims the right to set the topic and to moderate the direction of the discussion. An intellectual discussion should not be done under institutional control; a meaningful discussion happens between people, not between institutional roles.

[quote]I don't know about you, but I learn a whole hell of a lot more about Russian politics by listining for an hour and fifteen minutes to my professor who has spent how ever many years it has been since he graduated from Oxford studying Russian politics, speaks Russian fluently, and has traveled throughout the country than I do talking with other undergraduates who have read some books about Russian politics, kind of speak Russian well enough to get by, and would like to study abroad in St. Petersburg sometime. You can learn things, but it's just probably not going to be as intense or informative. Most schools do have a system to more personal, discussion based learning. That's generally what office hours are for. Most professors are honestly happy when an undergraduate is interested enough to stop by and discuss what the class is learning in more detail/more give and take.[/quote]
I have no problem with lectures. I think they're great. In fact, if I could abolish the modern university and re-create it, my ideal university would center around lectures. But these lectures would not be "classes" as we know them. First of all, attendance would not be mandatory. Second, there would be no "homework" or any other mandatory assignments. Third, there would be no "curriculum." The professor would lecture on topics that interest him, and students would attend whatever lectures interest them. The professor would not be there to "teach," but to share his expertise and to present an argument for discussion. Student discussions would all take place outside of institutional control; these discussions would be organized and led by students. There would be no institutional control over student discussions, but I am sure that professors would be more than happy to join in these discussions as fellow participants.

The problem is not with listening to other people in order to learn from what they have to say. Relationships (in which you both listen and speak) are the essence of learning. The problem is that modern schools are based on institutional relationships rather than real relationships. Take, for example, a university professor who takes class attendance. There is no freedom in this kind of relationship. The institution controls everything, down to your very attendance. You attend, not because the teacher is going to give an interesting lecture, but because the institution requires you to attend; your interest in the lecture is irrelevant as far as the institution is concerned.