We Need To Evolve - But To Where?

[Theoketos]

The Commitee was made up of Bishops (Bishops are not perfect and some time muss up Doctrine, and they are held extra accountable for they are extra responsible), Lay Doctors, Married People JP II. I think the Pope was Pope Paul VI.

(I really should rememeber who wrote Humanae Vitae)

[Bruce S]

Jason, SOME Catholics are right now VERY upset with JP II, and they, yes Catholics think he is a heretic. Of course, that never happens in the denomination of total unity...right?

[quote]Hence, it should be no surprise that we are today confronted with the need to resist a corrupt hierarchy.  Rather we should expect it and stoically accept the duty to resist.  Catholics should be aware of their right and duty to resist the hierarchy – which right the hierarchy is not to be expected to often make known.  To disobey a corrupt hierarchy and its false laws is an exercise of the virtue of equity, whereby all particular human laws – including those of ecclesiastics – are evaluated regarding whether they apply the more universal divine and natural law to the concrete situation; they are to be rejected if they do not guide the creature to its proper end, which for men is salvation.  As we shall see, the saints and doctors of all ages have told us that we must resist corrupt hierarchies.

But by the same token – the general corruption of humanity – I expect only a few of the readers to accept the clear Catholic teaching which follows, regarding the right and duty of Catholics to resist JPII and all his hierarchy.  Most will be too cowardly or unwilling to sacrifice their comforts and supposed status for the truth and duty.

[/quote]


[url="http://www.romancatholicism.org/duty-resist.html"]http://www.romancatholicism.org/duty-resist.html[/url]

Edited April 10, 2004 by Bruce S

[Livin_the_MASS]

I would die for JPII keep your link and watch what you call him!

God Bless
Jason

It is apparent whoever said such things are either not truly for the Catholic Church or don't know what there talking about.

[Bruce S]

[quote]Be careful what you call him [JP II][/quote]

I, Jason, called JP nothing, the Catholic writers did, so take your rant up with them dear boy...

[quote]It is apparent whoever said such things are either not truly for the Catholic Church or don't know what there talking about.[/quote]

OK.

They seem to have some very well reasoned points Jason.

Why don't you want to address some of them.

Or is BUMPER STICKER Catholicsm too comfy for you today?

My Country, Right or Wrong.

Love it or Leave It!

Edited April 10, 2004 by Bruce S

[Livin_the_MASS]

No I'm not like you I say with Christ, "Not my will Father, but your will be done"

I'm obedient. I know JPII life he has no issues to adress. You do.

God Bless
Jason

[Bruce S]

[quote]I'm obedient. [/quote]

Didn't that line of defense come under some careful questioning once before?

Nuremberg

And of course, that is always the way that things go when people blindly follow without actually having the concience to be independent.

You would have remained a Torry Jason.

Look it up.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 10 2004, 03:45 PM']
Didn't that line of defense come under some careful questioning once before?

Nuremberg

And of course, that is always the way that things go when people blindly follow without actually having the concience to be independent.

You would have remained a Torry Jason.

Look it up. [/quote]
"For this I was born and for this I came into the world, [b]to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listen to my voice"[/b](Jn 18: 37)

You are one lost brotha. Don't you read Sacred Scripture. You like endless disputes? You won't prove the Catholic Church wrong. Your little mission is going to mushy mud pie out. Especially with me around I'll make sure of it.

Peace

[Hananiah]

Bruce, I would be hesitant to call Thomas Sparks a Catholic. There is no higher judge on earth than the Pope, and hence no one but a future Pope can judge him. Thomas Sparks is arrogating to himself authority which he simply does not have. While John Paul II's actions at Assisi may be indicative of heresy, that is simply not for Catholic laymen (or monks, for that matter) to decide.

[Bruce S]

[quote] Your little mission is going to mushy mud pie out. Especially with me around I'll make sure of it.
[/quote]

Jason, you are a hoot.

I can see you as a Pilgrim in Salem right now.

[i][b]"I'll get you my pretty" [/b][/i]she said to Dorthy, while sending forth the flying monkeys...

[Hananiah]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 10 2004, 06:08 AM'] Now that is doubletalk. What EXACTLY is the Arch Bishop saying, and WHERE does the Catholic Church need to evolve to, in it's never ending quest to stay the same, yet change, never move, but always be current, keep ancient, yet be modern... [/quote]
My guess is as good as yours as to what the bishop is saying, but I can tell you a few things the Church needs to do.

1. Undertake a large project to reconcile the documents of Vatican II with Tradition. Issue infallible clarifications of the ambiguities in the aforementioned infallible documents.

2. Issue a universal indult for the Latin Mass.

3. Tell one guy who is fluent in both Latin and English to do a new (literal) translation of the Novus Ordo over the weekend, and start printing new missals next week. Abolish the ICEL.

4. To heck with ecumenism with former KGB agents turned schismatic bishops. Give the Ukranian Catholics the Patriarch they deserve.

5. Excommunicate all pro-abortion Catholic politicians.

6. Firmly discipline bishops who propagate heresy (such as the Chinese communist bishops).

7. Firmly discipline bishops who fail to take action against the propagation of heresy in their diocese (Adamec, Egan, Flynn, etc.)

8. Consecrate Russia, BY NAME, to the Immaculate Heary of Mary.

[Bruce S]

[quote name='Hananiah' date='Apr 10 2004, 03:05 PM'] Bruce, I would be hesitant to call Thomas Sparks a Catholic. There is no higher judge on earth than the Pope, and hence no one but a future Pope can judge him. Thomas Sparks is arrogating to himself authority which he simply does not have. While John Paul II's actions at Assisi may be indicative of heresy, that is simply not for Catholic laymen (or monks, for that matter) to decide. [/quote]
Silly me for thinking that this guy, with this as his masthead was a real Catholic...

[img]http://www.romancatholicism.org/tccr-banner.jpg[/img]

WHO is a "Real Catholic" then?

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 10 2004, 04:16 PM']
Jason, you are a hoot.

I can see you as a Pilgrim in Salem right now.

[i][b]"I'll get you my pretty" [/b][/i]she said to Dorthy, while sending forth the flying monkeys...

[/quote]
heeeeeheeeeeheeeee

Hey man you have to admit your not here to learn. Everything you post is an attack on the Catholic Faith.

There is a difference in wanting to learn and wanting to attack.

But thats cool the more you attack I'm right behind you giving the TRUTH to souls not some junk made up stuff.


let the games begin

In the love of Christ
Jason

[Hananiah]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 10 2004, 03:17 PM'] WHO is a "Real Catholic" then? [/quote]
Bruce, anyone who identifies himself as a revolutionary is not a Catholic. Revolution is by definition antithetical to an immutable and indefectible Church. Resisting authority to the face is permissible in certain circumstances, but revolting against it altogether is not.

[Bruce S]

[quote]Bruce, anyone who identifies himself as a revolutionary is not a Catholic. Revolution is by definition antithetical to an immutable and indefectible Church. Resisting authority to the face is permissible in certain circumstances, but revolting against it altogether is not. [/quote]

There goes your book Maccabees I & II. I *KNEW* Martin Luther had something he wasn't telling us about those books...grin.

Paul was a revolutionary. Jesus was certainly a spiritual revolutionary.

Right? Or did that go out and now only placid tame Catholics are "real Catholics" now?

Is there like a membership card or something that one could ask for?

Or is this, like everything else Catholic, subject to perfect hindsight?

Edited April 10, 2004 by Bruce S

[Hananiah]

I was referring specifically to revolutions within the Catholic Church. Thomas Sparks is in revolt against the Pope. Revolting against an oppressive and sacreligious dictator is another matter altogether.

Edited April 10, 2004 by Hananiah