reyb Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 After a brief deliberation on Article 1 - [b]Whether the body of Christ be in this sacrament in very truth, or merely as in a figure or sign?[/b] (see Question 75: Of The Change Of Bread And Wine Into The Body And Blood Of Christ\ 75 Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologiae), the conclusion is simple. Hilary (Hilarius Pictaviensis) says (De Trin. viii): "There is no room for doubt regarding the truth of Christ's body and blood; for now by our Lord's own declaring and by our faith His flesh is truly food, and His blood is truly drink." And Ambrose says (De Sacram. vi): "As the Lord Jesus Christ is God's true Son so is it Christ's true flesh which we take, and His true blood which we drink." Thomas Aquinas “The presence of Christ's true body and blood in this sacrament cannot be detected by sense, nor understanding, but by faith alone, which rests upon Divine authority. Hence, on Luke 22:19: "This is My body which shall be delivered up for you," Cyril says: "Doubt not whether this be true; but take rather the Saviour's words with faith; for since He is the Truth, He lieth not." And because of the above presentation, the Eucharist is now a true body and blood of Jesus Christ. ---------------------------- Let us discuss this once and for all because as Apostle Paul said (see 1 Cor 10:14-22) … ‘[color="#FF0000"]…Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.’[/color] …and I know nobody wanted it even me. Thus, I will say it again ‘Christ is not present in the Eucharist’. Okay. Just for the sake of our discussion, let us consider that this ‘bread and wine’ becomes the true ‘body and blood’ of Jesus and that this ‘act’ is not just for remembering but also a true offering of a true body and blood of Christ which is an offering in heaven ‘on-going and complete’. Why then you need to eat it day after day after day after day and …after day if not in every hour and in everyday. What I mean is this, it is written in John 6:53-58 that the flesh and blood of the Son of Man is real ‘food and real drink’ and whoever eats 'this' flesh and drinks 'this' blood remains in Him (Jesus) and I (Jesus) in him.’…...and he(whosooever it eat) will not go hungry. Now, since you said the ‘Eucharist’ becomes the true body and blood of Jesus (and everything you claim about it). Why then you need to eat it again and again and……again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote name='reyb' date='27 January 2010 - 07:12 AM' timestamp='1264590773' post='2045764'] Why then you need to eat it again and again and……again? [/quote] Um...we don't have to receive the Eucharist "day after day after day." The minimum requirement is once a year. However, why wouldn't you want to receive Christ in the Eucharist everyday if you were able? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 (edited) [quote name='peach_cube' date='27 January 2010 - 07:14 AM' timestamp='1264594474' post='2045767'] Um...we don't have to receive the Eucharist "day after day after day." The minimum requirement is once a year. However, why wouldn't you want to receive Christ in the Eucharist everyday if you were able? [/quote] Because if the Eucharist is for real then I do not need to eat it again as it is written in John 6:53-58 [indent][b] ‘… [color="#FF0000"]For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.’. [/color][/b][/indent] Meaning, if you eat the true body and drink the true blood of Jesus. He is in you and you are in him. Therefore, it is no longer necessary to do it once more because (and I will say it again), He is (already) in you and you are in Him. Thus my question is…. Why do you need to eat it again and again if this Eucharist is for real? Edited January 27, 2010 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommas_boy Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote name='reyb' date='27 January 2010 - 10:17 AM' timestamp='1264605461' post='2045804'] Because if the Eucharist is for real then I do not need to eat it again as it is written in John 6:53-58 [indent][b] ‘… [color="#FF0000"]For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.’. [/color][/b][/indent] Meaning, if you eat the true body and drink the true blood of Jesus. He is in you and you are in him. Therefore, it is no longer necessary to do it once more because (and I will say it again), He is (already) in you and you are in Him. Thus my question is…. Why do you need to eat it again and again if this Eucharist is for real? [/quote] Yet, Jesus tells us to "do this in rememberance of [him]". He doesn't specify a time frame for ceasing in that command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 We need to "eat" Jesus more than once because of our own sinfulness and tendency towards sin. Also, we only receive what we are disposed to receive.. which means most of us don't recieve much (grace). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote name='CatherineM' date='27 January 2010 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1264616331' post='2045897'] I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak. [/quote] [quote name='Saint Therese' date='27 January 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1264617092' post='2045909'] We need to "eat" Jesus more than once because of our own sinfulness and tendency towards sin. Also, we only receive what we are disposed to receive.. which means most of us don't recieve much (grace). [/quote] this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote name='CatherineM' date='28 January 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1264616331' post='2045897'] I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak. [/quote] When I take communion I feel the presence of Christ flooding into my body, but as time goes on the darkness seems to close in, by the time I get to the next mass I'm starved for more of the same. We continue to sin again and again but Jesus has a remedy! A cure for what ails us! we need to take it as often as we sin. But I also think that there is a cumulative component. The more I engage in the Eucharist the more easier it becomes to push the darkness back and allow Christ's wisdom to enter my soul. Jesus never advocated us to sit back and let himdo it all, we have to come to him by our love and free choice, the opposite to what led us away. Reyb, you need to think carefully about what you are saying. You are putting your own interpretations up against 2000 years of study by dedicated scholars and people who are far more knowledgable and intelligent than us. You are even challenging the words of Christ himself. He said "THIS IS my Body which was given up for you. THIS IS my blood of the new covenant which was shed for the many for the remission of sins." Partaking in his supernatural self which is limitless is what will convert our frail bodies into supernatural bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 Because he spiritually tastes good. Jesus is to the soul like oreo's are to the body... except Jesus is healthy and has all the vitamins and minerals you need. *goes into deep wonder and awe as to whether or not a single host has all the vitamins and minerals needed for a healthy diet* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' date='27 January 2010 - 01:18 PM' timestamp='1264616331' post='2045897'] I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak. [/quote] [quote name='mommas_boy' date='27 January 2010 - 01:25 PM' timestamp='1264616718' post='2045905'] Yet, Jesus tells us to "do this in rememberance of [him]". He doesn't specify a time frame for ceasing in that command. [/quote] [quote name='Saint Therese' date='27 January 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1264617092' post='2045909'] We need to "eat" Jesus more than once because of our own sinfulness and tendency towards sin. Also, we only receive what we are disposed to receive.. which means most of us don't recieve much (grace). [/quote] I truly understand what you are saying. But why this ‘I in him and you in me’ which is a covenant needed to be renewed? Or you do not know that it is a covenant. In the following verse which I have already mentioned in the topic starter, in John 6:35-40 ‘[color="#FF0000"][b]… Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty…[/b][/color]’ . If the Eucharist is true and for real why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar? Edited January 27, 2010 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted January 27, 2010 Author Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='27 January 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1264627521' post='2045967'] When I take communion I feel the presence of Christ flooding into my body, but as time goes on the darkness seems to close in, by the time I get to the next mass I'm starved for more of the same. We continue to sin again and again but Jesus has a remedy! A cure for what ails us! we need to take it as often as we sin. But I also think that there is a cumulative component. The more I engage in the Eucharist the more easier it becomes to push the darkness back and allow Christ's wisdom to enter my soul. Jesus never advocated us to sit back and let himdo it all, we have to come to him by our love and free choice, the opposite to what led us away. Reyb, you need to think carefully about what you are saying. You are putting your own interpretations up against 2000 years of study by dedicated scholars and people who are far more knowledgable and intelligent than us. You are even challenging the words of Christ himself. He said "THIS IS my Body which was given up for you. THIS IS my blood of the new covenant which was shed for the many for the remission of sins." Partaking in his supernatural self which is limitless is what will convert our frail bodies into supernatural bodies. [/quote] [quote name='Slappo' date='27 January 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1264627759' post='2045973'] Because he spiritually tastes good. Jesus is to the soul like oreo's are to the body... except Jesus is healthy and has all the vitamins and minerals you need. *goes into deep wonder and awe as to whether or not a single host has all the vitamins and minerals needed for a healthy diet* [/quote] Again, [quote name='reyb' date='27 January 2010 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1264627972' post='2045984'] I truly understand what you are saying. But why this ‘I in him and you in me’ which is a covenant needed to be renewed? Or you do not know that it is a covenant. In the following verse which I have already mentioned in the topic starter, in John 6:35-40 ‘[color="#FF0000"][b]… Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty…[/b][/color]’ . [/quote] If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote]If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar? [/quote] The Eucharist does more than feed our bodies...it feeds our spirits. When we partake of His body and blood, we are filled and our spirits are satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote name='reyb' date='27 January 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1264628396' post='2045997'] Again, If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar? [/quote] Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will find it through Christ. They will find it in the Real Presence and in the salvation He offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote name='reyb' date='27 January 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1264628396' post='2045997'] Again, If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar? [/quote] I never said it's because I'm hungry... I don't eat oreo's because I'm hungry, I eat them because they are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 [quote]Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will find it through Christ. They will find it in the Real Presence and in the salvation He offers. [/quote] Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts