AccountDeleted Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 To set the stage, non-Catholics see scruples differently than Catholics. Having scruples in the world is a good thing, it means having a conscience basically. There is even a group game called Scruples in which people are asked to say what they would do in a particular situation... and the more scruples one has, the "better person" one is. In Catholicism it means being overly conscientious though so when someone asked me once if I had scruples, I thought, yes, sure, of course I do, until I found out that this meant something bad, worrying too much about sin in fact to the ponit where every little thing is blown out of proportion. My question for the debate is whether this kind of scrupulosity is really just a hidden form of pride - wanting to be perfect, perhaps to get the admiration of others, or is it a type of illness, like obsessive compulsive disorder, which a person can't really help? I have opinions (of course), but I would like to know what others think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilianus Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Good grief. I suffer from scrupolosity, and now I'm going to worry if my scruples is a cardinal sin. Gee thanks a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 It would have to depend on the individual. This is where spiritual direction would help someone to see their motives. For some it may be pride, others may be perfectionists, mental issues, or perhaps the person has good intentions--trying to be holy but they go about it the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 [quote name='Maximilianus' date='23 January 2010 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1264223922' post='2042674'] Good grief. I suffer from scrupolosity, and now I'm going to worry if my scruples is a cardinal sin. Gee thanks a lot [/quote] Oh, I am so sorry, I had no intention of doing that! I think sometimes I suffer from scruples too but then I also worry that this might be pride, so maybe it is just more scruples! Maybe I will be sorry I started this thread! So sorry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 [quote name='tinytherese' date='23 January 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1264223943' post='2042676'] It would have to depend on the individual. This is where spiritual direction would help someone to see their motives. For some it may be pride, others may be perfectionists, mental issues, or perhaps the person has good intentions--trying to be holy but they go about it the wrong way. [/quote] You are so smart, and that is one of the reasons I have a SD - I worry too much about things and he tells me to relax! We need more good SDs - first more priests then more trained as good (holy) SDs. Good advice though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilianus Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='nunsense' date='23 January 2010 - 01:24 AM' timestamp='1264224281' post='2042682'] Oh, I am so sorry, I had no intention of doing that! I think sometimes I suffer from scruples too but then I also worry that this might be pride, so maybe it is just more scruples! Maybe I will be sorry I started this thread! So sorry.... [/quote] Just messing with you, but seriously if you would have made this thread a few years you would have had me worrying because at that time my scruples were at their peak. [quote]I think sometimes I suffer from scruples too but then I also worry that this might be pride, so maybe it is just more scruples![/quote] If you think you might have scrupolosity check this place out. It that has helped me deal with my scruples. http://mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupanon.htm Edited January 23, 2010 by Maximilianus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy_Catholic Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 It reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Homer started doing good works for his own benefit of emotional gain, Ned Flanders got horribly jealous and tried to one up Homer. I never considered scruples as a form of pride, but then, one could argue, that any morality or principals could be seen as the same. I believe the Bible and Jesus speak of doing our good works privately and not for public awareness. I often wonder if I'm sinning in some way, as I dislike attention and praise so I do my "good works" behind the scenes. I'd probably still do a "good deed" if it was really good but meant I'd get people looking at me, but I'd still be horribly uncomfortable about it. But you see it a bit in the Pro-Life movement and in Christianity, people trying to out do each other in generosity. I know a lady who found out my parents were giving to a poor family some clothes and toys and such, so this woman barged over there with enough food to feed a small army, she then started steering conversations towards how much she gave to this family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I see scrupulosity as stemming from anxiety, not pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) I can imagine it being a form of pride for some people, but I think it's more likely to be a lack of trust in the mercy and redeeming power of God more than anything. Edited January 23, 2010 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 If it is about your accepted religious doctrines and your teachers said ‘it is pride’ (since you will question the truthfulness of their teachings brought by your doubt), it means, it is in their relief if you will listen to them and they are not good teachers. These teachers have forgotten, how can you doubt - even if you are willing – if you know the truth? Now, if you are truly looking for the truth which leads you to become ‘doubtful’ to your accepted belief - it is a sign of awakening using your common sense and it is good. It is not pride because, how can you take pride on things you do not know? Seek the truth and everything will be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephrem Augustine Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Sometimes i think we are so impressed with our idea that we can win over God by doing the right thing, and we forget that we need grace to grow into the saint that God calls us to be. I think, on average, we can just grow up thinking all of it is left in our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleReader Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I think its a matter of heart. Christ condemned anyone who sought praise from humans. He basically says the anytime we do something for the sake of receiving praise from any person, we reap our reward on earth and that is an earthly thing. When we do things for the love of Christ and because we know its right, seeking righteousness with God, then we are doing so for the right reasons. Our duty is to spread the word, and also to try, out of love, to follow Christ. God put these rules in order so that they may benefit us, not so we can find a good feeling in doing so. When you admit to something you have done wrong, you seldom feel good about, knowing there are more consequences, but you know it is right, and it is God's will, so you do it anyways. If you do things for the sake of righteousness then they will benefit you in eternity, these are the things which are blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'd say scruples is definitely caused more by OCD than by pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 So then, if a person does NOT have scruples, would you say that s/he is an "unscrupulous person?" hmmmm.... I don't think I should have used the word "pride" so much as "spiritual pride" because what I was trying to get at is how one can start out with the intention of trying not to offend God, and then end up developing a sense of spiritual pride at how hard one is trying (despite knowing that one is a sinner and that is through the grace of God)! But then sometimes I do get way too deep into these things when I should just be more trusting and childlike. It comes from being too analytical. The mercy of God, yes..... thank you for all these thoughtful replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 [quote name='reyb' date='24 January 2010 - 03:12 AM' timestamp='1264263175' post='2042826'] If it is about your accepted religious doctrines and your teachers said ‘it is pride’ (since you will question the truthfulness of their teachings brought by your doubt), it means, it is in their relief if you will listen to them and they are not good teachers. These teachers have forgotten, how can you doubt - even if you are willing – if you know the truth? Now, if you are truly looking for the truth which leads you to become ‘doubtful’ to your accepted belief - it is a sign of awakening using your common sense and it is good. It is not pride because, how can you take pride on things you do not know? Seek the truth and everything will be okay. [/quote] I am sorry but I don't really understand what you are trying to say here, and how it relates to scruples as being caused by pride? It could be a language problem, I don't know, but could you try again, stating what you are saying in another way? I am not confused about teachings here, but about motivation and cause and effect relating to scruples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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