Fyi: Legion: A Film That Mocks The Faith And Leads To Despair

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='23 January 2010 - 01:04 PM' timestamp='1264273480' post='2042911']
I personally liked it and I read it when I was that young as well. Though it didn't changed anything, but then that's because I tend to read fiction for their value with its entertainment value and not let anything else disrupt that.
[/quote]
I found the very basic premise rather good, but when he started to get all pretentious and anti-theistic, that definitely decreased the overall quality. The whole killing God part was a bit much...

[Happy_Catholic]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='21 January 2010 - 10:51 AM' timestamp='1264089080' post='2041435']
The problem in many cases is that the more we actively protest, the more some people want to see it.

That's why The DaVinci Code did so well, despite being boring and pretentious, and The Golden Compass was a bit of a flop in spite of its admittedly rather intriguing plot (I read the books). We protested the DaVinci Code; we just quietly didn't watch The Golden Compass.
They may not make a sequel to The Golden Compass now, because it just didn't do well enough. On the other hand, Dan Brown is raking it in from a second movie already.
[/quote]

Yeah, that sort of thing happened down here. When that disgusting South Park episode that blasphemed against the Virgin, there was such a huge public outcry (mostly from Christians) that instead of not screening the episode, the channel brought it forward six weeks! And then repeated it three times in the same week so everyone could see it and, as the CEO of the channel said "see it so they can develop their own opinion". They were only doing it for their own money grubbing desires, and it was the most watched programme that night at that time.

It was disgraceful. Even the news shows showed the most offensive parts of the cartoon at their 6pm programme, which of course, got all the young kids wanting to see it.

Ironically, if the Christian groups hadn't protested, it'd just be another episode screened at 930 at night that didn't win a lot of viewers.

Although, a lot of companies pulled their advertising from that channel for fear of Christian boycotting every company that advertised during that show's time.

[BG45]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' date='23 January 2010 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1264280503' post='2042998']
Controversy gives more attention than is due.
It already looked boring.
[/quote]

Amen, heh. The call for a protest in the site listed reminds me of EA hiring people to pose as Christian protesters to get the press for Dante's Inferno, the game.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='BG45' date='24 January 2010 - 10:16 AM' timestamp='1264342617' post='2043387']
Amen, heh. The call for a protest in the site listed reminds me of EA hiring people to pose as Christian protesters to get the press for Dante's Inferno, the game.
[/quote]

That game looks awesome!

[zunshynn]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='23 January 2010 - 12:04 PM' timestamp='1264273480' post='2042911']
I personally liked it and I read it when I was that young as well. Though it didn't changed anything, but then that's because I tend to read fiction for their value with its entertainment value and not let anything else disrupt that.
[/quote]

That's precisely the problem. The guy had an agenda, and everyone thinks they're reading it for "entertainment value". (I don't really know what entertainment value there is in characters "killing God" and what not... but that's just me... although I read it in 7th grade and had no idea that was the premise of the book. Children that young and younger are not able to sort through messages of what they read. It does not mean they are unaffected by the message though.

I can't find the quote atm, but Philip Pullman basically said his aim through writing was to turn children into atheists. He was not looking to entertain anyone.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='24 January 2010 - 02:35 PM' timestamp='1264358124' post='2043507']
That's precisely the problem. The guy had an agenda, and everyone thinks they're reading it for "entertainment value". (I don't really know what entertainment value there is in characters "killing God" and what not... but that's just me... although I read it in 7th grade and had no idea that was the premise of the book. Children that young and younger are not able to sort through messages of what they read. It does not mean they are unaffected by the message though.

I can't find the quote atm, but Philip Pullman basically said his aim through writing was to turn children into atheists. He was not looking to entertain anyone.
[/quote]

But, maybe that is the problem as well, that we tend to read to much into things and then we get lost in what we were looking for in the first place. Wheather Pullman had an agenda or not, it does not matter, other people do not have an agenda, but others make it appear like they do. (sorry for the vague example). I mean, for example his whole 'killing God' deal, well he certainly wasn't killing the God I believe in so really its no skin of my nose and even if he means for it to be my God, than I can only laugh and pity him for having such a misunderstanding of who God really is.

Given some children may have been touched by the ill meaning within the novel with is a tradegy since novels are meant to entertain and give the reader a new insight. I think the fact that its fiction is what kept me from delving deeper into symbols and such. Pullman's writing is rather shallow and despite his aspirations of being the 'anti' C.S. Lewis, he is still a bit far off.

I think its just a matter of what your priorities are. Of course I am using 'your' generally here. We can crusade all we want, but it does not change that these books are in stores so just let them sit and collect dust rather than proclaim their seeming evil nature, since that tends to call more attention than any actual promotion. I mean, people get curious when others object. I mean, look at this thread its supposedly to deride the movie Legion, but by doing so has drawn attention from the forum members here and as side product some may go out to see it.

So how about we just leave some things for surface value.

[jmjtina]

To deny the full impact the media has on people is ridiculous at least and spiritually dangerous at most.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='24 January 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1264359512' post='2043534']
To deny the full impact the media has on people is ridiculous at least and spiritually dangerous at most.
[/quote]

It's not so much denying as it is ignoring.

Why let it get to you? I mean, doesn't that mean the one below has already won then? Because if you just become consumed or paranoid of such things then you end up missing other things that he is distracting you from.

[jmjtina]

dude, I'm a youth minister.

While it may not affect me directly, it affects the people around me and the community I serve.

Even if I wasn't a youth minister, I've got to speak up when I see people with little or NO religious background going in and coming out and asking me if it is "true". Catholics and non-Catholics. I understand it's fiction. Believe me, I understand. But that doesn't stop my youth and friends who just last night told me, "I'm confused now." That is the reality. At least the youth are questioning it. And rightly so. It plays on our worst fears. God get's tired of humanity and becomes vengeful. No longer loving and forgiving and the only one who believes in humanity? A fallen angel. riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Should I take the approach and tell them it's "just fiction"? If that works for you, I'd love to work in that area. It would be easier. But in my blittle part of the universe, we actually talk about it and put things in perspective. If you'd like to call that a "distraction" then you don't know the meaning of sharing of sharing the Gospel.

Edited January 24, 2010 by jmjtina

[kujo]

Saw the movie. Laughed my butt off through almost all of it, particularly the scene where the Angel Gabriel's wings were used both as a spinning-bullet proof vest and as a sword.

I can't understand how even some really uninformed people could think some parts of this movie were true. It was like every B-movie you've ever seen--cheesy effects, cheesy dialogue, laughable plot twists. I mean, honestly, anyone who has seen an episode of Touched by an Angel knows that this is just a ridiculous excuse for a serious movie. But it didn't really try to be. It was kind of okay with how dumb it was, unlike [u]The Happening[/u] which was supposed to be the same sort of coagulated milk-fest, but was mistaken for a good movie by most going in.

At the end of the day, if you don't laugh at the notion of people being "possessed" by angels, you're thinking too much into it. It's dumb, it got poor ratings by those coming out of the movie (was told it was a C- according to one such poll), and will probably be out of the public eye in a few weeks.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='24 January 2010 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1264362532' post='2043595']
dude, I'm a youth minister.


While it may not affect me directly, it affects the people around me and the community I serve.

Even if I wasn't a youth minister, I've got to speak up when I see people with little or NO religious background going in and coming out and asking me if it is "true". Catholics and non-Catholics. I understand it's fiction. Believe me, I understand. But that doesn't stop my youth and friends who just last night told me, "I'm confused now." That is the reality. At least the youth are questioning it. And rightly so. It plays on our worst fears. God get's tired of humanity and becomes vengeful. No longer loving and forgiving and the only one who believes in humanity? A fallen angel. riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Should I take the approach and tell them it's "just fiction"? If that works for you, I'd love to work in that area. It would be easier. But in my blittle part of the universe, we actually talk about it and put things in perspective. If you'd like to call that a "distraction" then you don't know the meaning of sharing of sharing the Gospel.
[/quote]

Hey, I mean that is what fiction is. If you read anything more into it that is your business, but by giving it more insight you insult it since it is nothing but cheap entertainment. Of course I use 'insult' here at a stretch.

I can call it whatever since it is all perspective, and maybe I do know the meaning of sharing the Gospel, but I do it to a different effect since you already stated you are a youth minister. I am merely a layman here, so there is already a difference in that respect. Though I'd rather you not claim that "I don't know" such things, because honestly good sir you don't know me to begin with.

Edited January 25, 2010 by ThePenciledOne

[zunshynn]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' date='24 January 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1264358634' post='2043518']
But, maybe that is the problem as well, that we tend to read to much into things and then we get lost in what we were looking for in the first place. Wheather Pullman had an agenda or not, it does not matter, other people do not have an agenda, but others make it appear like they do. (sorry for the vague example). I mean, for example his whole 'killing God' deal, well he certainly wasn't killing the God I believe in so really its no skin of my nose and even if he means for it to be my God, than I can only laugh and pity him for having such a misunderstanding of who God really is.
[/quote]

Even if you don't think you're affected by the agenda, you are supporting it, encouraging publishers to publish more of his work, which may get worse in the future... and if his agenda does affect someone else, you will be partially responsible for that.

That's like using Planned Parenthood for their services to help conceive a child (not all of which are objectively immoral) and saying, "well, [i]I'm[/i] not using them for contraception, abortion or IVF... so it's okay." The fact is, they do have an agenda. You know very well that they do, and even if you're not directly using them for immoral fertility treatments, you are supporting their agenda by giving your money to them in exchange for whatever service you accept from them, in addition to giving them another number to advertise with the other hundreds of thousands they help that "need" their "services".

They're all too happy for people to "ignore" their agenda, as is the entertainment industry... but there are equally, if not better, sources of entertainment out there that are wholesome and either directly or indirectly aiming to encourage people's faith and well-being. And many of them are struggling immensely to make their way in the entertainment industry largely because most Christians have the hypocrisy to continue to support the smut that Hollywood releases rather than the grassroots movement of Christian or positive secular films. As they say, you vote once a year in a poll booth. You vote every day with your wallet.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='25 January 2010 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1264440265' post='2044212']
Even if you don't think you're affected by the agenda, you are supporting it, encouraging publishers to publish more of his work, which may get worse in the future... and if his agenda does affect someone else, you will be partially responsible for that.

That's like using Planned Parenthood for their services to help conceive a child (not all of which are objectively immoral) and saying, "well, [i]I'm[/i] not using them for contraception, abortion or IVF... so it's okay." The fact is, they do have an agenda. You know very well that they do, and even if you're not directly using them for immoral fertility treatments, you are supporting their agenda by giving your money to them in exchange for whatever service you accept from them, in addition to giving them another number to advertise with the other hundreds of thousands they help that "need" their "services".

They're all too happy for people to "ignore" their agenda, as is the entertainment industry... but there are equally, if not better, sources of entertainment out there that are wholesome and either directly or indirectly aiming to encourage people's faith and well-being. And many of them are struggling immensely to make their way in the entertainment industry largely because most Christians have the hypocrisy to continue to support the smut that Hollywood releases rather than the grassroots movement of Christian or positive secular films. As they say, you vote once a year in a poll booth. You vote every day with your wallet.
[/quote]

Alright fair enough, though if I don't see a problem with it then what? Sure, I will responsible for maybe other horrid movies to be projected in the future, but what honestly stops that? Plus, to take another example we all pay taxes and are inevitably helping the government wage wars(I know this is a low blow, but most of our taxes go toward defense), which last time I checked never a good thing. So, when it comes down to it not one of us are innocent of anything, and if others seem to pass judgment on me that I may go see this movie or another, they have to look at themselves first as ask who are they to judge?

After all, I think I know where I will be judged last anyway.

[jmjtina]

While you state "if you read more into it it's your business" you fail to grasp, [i]that while I agree with you to a certain point[/i], not everyone thinks it's just [i]fiction[/i] and you have those lucky few that know it's fiction, but due to little or no religious education, are now in doubt of God's love for them.

What I do know about you, is that your [u]opinion [/u]fails to see [i]any [/i]danger in it.

That's not ignorance. It's desensitized.

pax.

Edited January 26, 2010 by jmjtina

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='jmjtina' date='26 January 2010 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1264488497' post='2044818']
While you state "if you read more into it it's your business" you fail to grasp, [i]that while I agree with you to a certain point[/i], not everyone thinks it's just [i]fiction[/i] and you have those lucky few that know it's fiction, but due to little or no religious education, are now in doubt of God's love for them.

What I do know about you, is that your [u]opinion [/u]fails to see [i]any [/i]danger in it.

That's not ignorance. [b]It's desensitized[/b].

pax.
[/quote]


Says something about current culture does it not?

Though I will say jmjtina that you are very correct and I am sorry that I caused a bit of frustration on your end. I hope you can accept my apology.

Edited January 26, 2010 by ThePenciledOne