Is Abortion Health Care?

[Veridicus]

In my opinion, the physics and physiology of contraceptive methods are mostly semantic. "Preventing implantation" is a joke. The progesterone doses render the endometrial lining incapable of forming a viable placental interface. I have yet to be convinced by anything I've read that the blastocyst bounces off the endometrium like a pinball and we can forget about the "products of conception" while they are too small to notice. It is entirely possible these "preventing implantation" progestin-based BCPs and ECPs simply mean the blastocyst attaches to the endometrial lining but then its trophoblastic layers cannot fully penetrate the luminal surface to access the spiral arteries (which haven't adequately developed). In this case I would say the blastocyst 'implanted', just terminally so. Thus the medical definition of abortion could still hold if these blastocysts aren't bouncing off like pinballs.

It's all semantics. People with agendas have been using semantics to justify murder since the beginning. With abortion and OCPs we just have to pretend we don't know where the blastocyst is or where its sticking to...afterall its only a few dozen cells...we wouldt notice if it bounced off or implanted and then died...its too small to bleed...too small to scream for nutrients. Just a matter of location and there's no one watching, right? Same semantics as have always been used.

"How am I to know where he is? Am I my brother's keeper?"

Edited January 17, 2010 by Veridicus

[AccountDeleted]

I think someone made a good point above. How Catholic are Catholic hospitals? I mean, if Notre Dame University gave Obama an honorary degree and invited him to speak, then what does "Catholic" mean to some people? In fact, how Catholic are many Catholics these days? Until all Catholics are living their faith, then how can we expect others to understand? What we need to do is pray for conversion experiences for all Catholics who are not living their faith and the teachings of the Church. Maybe we could all add a little extra prayer at the end of the day for our Blessed Mother to intercede for all Catholics by asking Jesus to turn our watered down Catholicism into the sweet wine of the True Faith!

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam' date='16 January 2010 - 02:20 PM' timestamp='1263669623' post='2038620']
A friend of mine and I were discussing this last year when all this started. We noted many bishops, religious, and some Protestants said that they would close their hospitals rather than perform abortions. Now if this were to happen and hospitals were mandated to have to perform abortions, no doubt some would threaten to close. Let's not say a sizable but a fair amount of hospitals did. Now they would not be allowed to close. They would probably be sued to keep them open and their would be an injuction filed. If the Catholic hospitals won the case then the government could declare immanent domain (in the name of the greater good of the people to keep the healthcare system functioning) and take the hospitals and "pay a fair price" and keep them open. If they lost the case the government would probably still take it. In this way the government could gain a foothold in the healthcare business not only through national insurance/healthcare but also in the operation of hospitals. I am not saying that this is all one big conspiracy, that this has been planned from the beginning, or that this is the way it will all go down. However, this is not a good scenario that my friend and I discussed as at the very least possible.
[/quote]

I would say this is not far fetched but actually the design of this administration. The government already owns shares in chevy and chrysler, which it will never relinquish as it can now mandate what they sell and how they sell it remember cash for clunkers?. The banking industry has paid back their loans with interest and Obama announced the other day he would tax them to retrieve monies not paid back by the auto industry, he laid this off to them being unfair with the bonuses to executives, the very same execs who were responsible for the profits which allowed them to pay of the debt.
If a catholic or any religious hospital were to close to oppose abortion the government would simply take it over for the public good, a cheap way to gain more power and control over the citenzry. Face it folks healthcare and health related services are a major part of the economy, and as we are moving towards a socialist country we have no place for God in the equation. Look at the aspect of mandated healthcare, we must buy it or face fines and jailtime, part of this bill is unlimited access to abortion, all abortion even late term abortion, and abortion access to children without their parents consent and as catholics we are not allowed to participate in this. On the other hand if we do not we are in violation of the law, so we either become a criminal or we become a sinner.

ed

[Happy_Catholic]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='17 January 2010 - 02:20 AM' timestamp='1263712814' post='2039015']
In my opinion, the physics and physiology of contraceptive methods are mostly semantic. "Preventing implantation" is a joke. [/quote]

A doctor was telling me once, and it was backed up in some of the literature I've seen, that no one really knows how things like IUDs actually work. Or the pill, its all a kind of stab in the dark sort of thing.

But however it works, its not good really. My (unmarried) sister was on the pill for 3 years, and now she wants to have a child with her fiancee, she hasn't been able to fall pregnant. She's 26, he's 25 and they've been trying for a year. Its hard to beleive at their age that it could be something physical.

[quote]"How am I to know where he is? Am I my brother's keeper?"
[/quote]

Its worse in this situation, as its "Am I my child's keeper?" Its one thing to shun your siblings, but a whole different ball game when you kill your own child!

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Happy_Catholic' date='17 January 2010 - 02:06 AM' timestamp='1263715601' post='2039026']
no one really knows how things like IUDs actually work. Or the pill, its all a kind of stab in the dark sort of thing.
[/quote]

What a chillingly a propros way of phrasing it. Stab in the dark, indeed.

[Happy_Catholic]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='17 January 2010 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1263759429' post='2039197']
What a chillingly a propros way of phrasing it. Stab in the dark, indeed.
[/quote]

I always think of Nelson Muntz in the Simpsons, he said something once which summed it up nicely.

"It's a victimless crime, like punching someone in the dark!"

[add]

a catholic nurse writes in regard to being forced to provide abortion services, if and when required by the state: [quote] As a devout Catholic nurse I'd like to remind the citizens of MA that it's this sort of legislation that would force us Catholic Nurses to leave our profession. Then what sort of nurses would be left to care for them? It is nurses like myself who consider our work The Lord's Work and give the utmost love and concern to our patients and their families. If we are forced out of our profession what will be left are those who consider their work strictly a job.[/quote]

Edited January 18, 2010 by apparently