brightsadness Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='laetitia crucis' date='17 January 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1263774795' post='2039366'] [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/console.gif[/img] There, there... maybe it'll come back 'round again. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] Hmm... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think_chin.gif[/img] .... so, has anyone ever discerned with an Eastern Catholic Monastery? [/quote] I have stayed at an Eastern Catholic Monastery and am currently discerning about them and a Latin Rite community that has Eastern Rite missions. I hope to come to clarity in the next few months. My SD wants me to have more time with each community before I decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='brightsadness' date='19 January 2010 - 02:21 PM' timestamp='1263928878' post='2040233'] I have stayed at an Eastern Catholic Monastery and am currently discerning about them and a Latin Rite community that has Eastern Rite missions. I hope to come to clarity in the next few months. My SD wants me to have more time with each community before I decide. [/quote] JMJ Which community would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='brightsadness' date='19 January 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1263928878' post='2040233'] I have stayed at an Eastern Catholic Monastery and am currently discerning about them and a Latin Rite community that has Eastern Rite missions. I hope to come to clarity in the next few months. My SD wants me to have more time with each community before I decide. [/quote] If you don't mind my asking, did you grow up in the Byzantine Rite? And if so... ...I guess I was thinking as myself in your situation, but I know I've never discerned with an Eastern Catholic order, yet I would think I might have a hard time getting used to it. Is it comparable to a N.O. English Catholic getting used to the T.L.M.? Are there any major differences or sacrifices for you as a Byzantine Catholic, if you were to enter a Latin Rite order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightsadness Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='laetitia crucis' date='19 January 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1263935321' post='2040305'] If you don't mind my asking, did you grow up in the Byzantine Rite? And if so... [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/think_chin.gif[/img] ...I guess I was thinking as myself in your situation, but I know I've never discerned with an Eastern Catholic order, yet I would think I might have a hard time getting used to it. Is it comparable to a N.O. English Catholic getting used to the T.L.M.? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/idontknow.gif[/img] Are there any major differences or sacrifices for you as a Byzantine Catholic, if you were to enter a Latin Rite order? [/quote] Yes, I am a Byzantine Rite Catholic as is my family. My spirituality and devotion is Eastern and I would miss the liturgical forms and some other cultural stuff. However the Lord does get to ask that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightsadness Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='Tridenteen' date='19 January 2010 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1263935265' post='2040304'] JMJ Which community would that be? [/quote] I'd rather wait until after my visits to share that. Anya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='brightsadness' date='19 January 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1263937970' post='2040314'] Yes, I am a Byzantine Rite Catholic as is my family. My spirituality and devotion is Eastern and I would miss the liturgical forms and some other cultural stuff. [b]However the Lord does get to ask that.[/b] [/quote] That's very good point! Hmmm... I have a feeling I just might know which order you're talking about with the Eastern Rite missions. Be assured of my prayers for you and your discernment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='laetitia crucis' date='19 January 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1263935321' post='2040305'] If you don't mind my asking, did you grow up in the Byzantine Rite? And if so... ...I guess I was thinking as myself in your situation, but I know I've never discerned with an Eastern Catholic order, yet I would think I might have a hard time getting used to it. Is it comparable to a N.O. English Catholic getting used to the T.L.M.? Are there any major differences or sacrifices for you as a Byzantine Catholic, if you were to enter a Latin Rite order? [/quote] May I add my $.02? I cannot give as detailed of a witness as brightsadness for I'm Roman Catholic but I have attended Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic Liturgies. I'd attended Byzantine Liturgies for several months before moving out of town to where there are none. I have to admit that were there any Eastern Rite Catholic churches near me, I'd be going there and have started looking into jobs elsewhere to move where I'd be able to attend a Byzantine parish. When I step inside the church I feel I should remove my shoes for I believe I am on holy ground. I think that's one of the differences between the rites. Whereas many modern Catholic churches have removed the stained glass and the statuary, Eastern Rite churches still hold fast to the belief that their churches are to give witness to, or manifest, Heaven on earth and so you'll see a plethora of iconography and murals, to give witness to the Glory of God and to surround one in the atmosphere of being in the presence of God and His Angels and Saints. Whereas Roman Masses are brief, almost terse (can't go over that one hour mark, and some cry foul if Mass is longer than 45 minutes!), Byzantine Liturgies are more dynamic, with greater ceremony. I've been to Divine Liturgies that were longer than 90 minutes... and yet, it didn't seem that long when I looked at my watch after Liturgy. The Liturgy is chanted and all song has meaning. I heard one monk state it this way: At a Roman Catholic Mass, you sing AT Mass. In the Byzantine tradition, we sing the Liturgy. I've been to one parish where there was a lot of parishioner choral participation and another where there was very little, leaving the chanting to the choir. Like Roman Catholic churches, some Liturgies are in English while others will use another tongue (Greek, Russian, etc.). You'll also notice a lot more incense used during the Liturgy, which of course is in line with the 'greater ceremony' I mentioned above. The time of liturgical year will determine the chant tone to use and the longer you go to Liturgy, the more familiar each tone will be when it comes time to sing it again. I'm not so sure I would say that it would be like someone used to the NO getting used to the EF, because depending on the parish, the Liturgy may still be in English. But the ambiance, the 'look', the degree of participation, the reverence, the length, rubrics... all are different. Even the Communion is different. Byzantine churches use leavened bread and give it to the communicant via a small spoon. You tip your head back and open your mouth (no sticking out the tongue!) to receive. While the priest murmurs a prayer while distributing there is no 'amen' at the end. :thinking: The sign of the cross is from right-to-left. The gesture of reverence is a profound bow vs. genuflecting, and parishioners stand vs. kneeling. With all the differences, the great similarity is that we're all Catholics with different cultural ways of praying our Liturgies. And as Catholics in good standing we can attend any of the Catholic Churches regardless of rite and still fulfill our Sunday obligations. Actually, after a few short weeks, I was feeling right at home and was rather shellshocked when returning to a Roman Rite church! Okay, I'm sure brightsadness has already posted a response but I love love love the Byzantine Rite and wanted to chime in! Pax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='brightsadness' date='19 January 2010 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1263938044' post='2040315'] I'd rather wait until after my visits to share that. Anya [/quote] JMJ I like the Eastern practices. I am very Latin, but I love the music, vestments, worship, and icons. I can't fit all of my icons onto my littlxe shelf, I heardn somewhere that there is a way of arranging icons, or is that only in the russian orthodox church? I will be sure to pray for you and your upcoming visit. Tridenteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='HisChild' date='19 January 2010 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1263939569' post='2040321'] May I add my $.02? I cannot give as detailed of a witness as brightsadness for I'm Roman Catholic but I have attended Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic Liturgies. I'd attended Byzantine Liturgies for several months before moving out of town to where there are none. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sadder.gif[/img] I have to admit that were there any Eastern Rite Catholic churches near me, I'd be going there and have started looking into jobs elsewhere to move where I'd be able to attend a Byzantine parish. When I step inside the church I feel I should remove my shoes for I believe I am on holy ground. I think that's one of the differences between the rites. Whereas many modern Catholic churches have removed the stained glass and the statuary, Eastern Rite churches still hold fast to the belief that their churches are to give witness to, or manifest, Heaven on earth and so you'll see a plethora of iconography and murals, to give witness to the Glory of God and to surround one in the atmosphere of being in the presence of God and His Angels and Saints. Whereas Roman Masses are brief, almost terse (can't go over that one hour mark, and some cry foul if Mass is longer than 45 minutes!), Byzantine Liturgies are more dynamic, with greater ceremony. I've been to Divine Liturgies that were longer than 90 minutes... and yet, it didn't seem that long when I looked at my watch after Liturgy. The Liturgy is chanted and all song has meaning. I heard one monk state it this way: At a Roman Catholic Mass, you sing AT Mass. In the Byzantine tradition, we sing the Liturgy. I've been to one parish where there was a lot of parishioner choral participation and another where there was very little, leaving the chanting to the choir. Like Roman Catholic churches, some Liturgies are in English while others will use another tongue (Greek, Russian, etc.). You'll also notice a lot more incense used during the Liturgy, which of course is in line with the 'greater ceremony' I mentioned above. The time of liturgical year will determine the chant tone to use and the longer you go to Liturgy, the more familiar each tone will be when it comes time to sing it again. I'm not so sure I would say that it would be like someone used to the NO getting used to the EF, because depending on the parish, the Liturgy may still be in English. But the ambiance, the 'look', the degree of participation, the reverence, the length, rubrics... all are different. Even the Communion is different. Byzantine churches use leavened bread and give it to the communicant via a small spoon. You tip your head back and open your mouth (no sticking out the tongue!) to receive. While the priest murmurs a prayer while distributing there is no 'amen' at the end. :thinking: The sign of the cross is from right-to-left. The gesture of reverence is a profound bow vs. genuflecting, and parishioners stand vs. kneeling. With all the differences, the great similarity is that we're all Catholics with different cultural ways of praying our Liturgies. And as Catholics in good standing we can attend any of the Catholic Churches regardless of rite and still fulfill our Sunday obligations. Actually, after a few short weeks, I was feeling right at home and was rather shellshocked when returning to a Roman Rite church! Okay, I'm sure brightsadness has already posted a response but I love love love the Byzantine Rite and wanted to chime in! Pax. [/quote] JMJ You remind me of when my grandparents (English Mass) came out to our Church for Holy Week and Easter. Evidently, they find the 1 hr in the English Mass excessive...they weren't happy about spending 2 1/2 to 3 hours at church during the Holy Week Services![img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/upsidedown.gif[/img] Do Byzantines cover their heads? Also, when you make the Sign of the Cross, do you use your first three fingers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 JMJ Oh for pete's sake, I find this really interesting, can someone start a thread where we can discuss and compare the difference in Latin vs Byzantine Rites? No angry responses allowed! Tridenteen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Thanks for that insight, HisChild -- I found it very helpful, and must admit that you have me yearning to go to Byzantine Rite Mass! When you said, "[i]When I step inside the church I feel I should remove my shoes for I believe I am on holy ground[/i]." -- that speaks volumes to me. (Volumes!) And of course, "[i]The Liturgy is chanted and all song has meaning.[/i]" = *sigh* I think if I went to a Mass where EVERYTHING was beautifully chanted (with full congregational participation) I think my soul would literally leave my body. I think I'd die right then and there of happiness. Ah, what divine music does to a person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 [quote name='Tridenteen' date='19 January 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1263940507' post='2040332'] JMJ Oh for pete's sake, I find this really interesting, can someone start a thread where we can discuss and compare the difference in Latin vs Byzantine Rites? No angry responses allowed! Tridenteen [/quote] It seems there have been quite a few posts comparing/contrasting the Eastern Rite vs. the Latin Rite. Hmm.. let's see if my search results will link correctly: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=quick_search&&&search_term=Latin+Rite+vs.+Eastern+Rite&search_sort_by=relevence&search_filter_app[forums]=1"]Latin Rite vs. Eastern Rite[/url] Okay, worked for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightsadness Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 [quote name='Tridenteen' date='19 January 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1263940123' post='2040325'] JMJ I like the Eastern practices. I am very Latin, but I love the music, vestments, worship, and icons. I can't fit all of my icons onto my littlxe shelf, I heardn somewhere that there is a way of arranging icons, or is that only in the russian orthodox church? I will be sure to pray for you and your upcoming visit. Tridenteen [/quote] Icon Corner in the eastern part of the room. Place for prayer. Can be very simple. [img]http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/roseal4/Icon%20Corner%20Pictures/Icon%20Corner%20full%20view.JPG[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tridenteen Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 [quote name='brightsadness' date='20 January 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1264014010' post='2040887'] Icon Corner in the eastern part of the room. Place for prayer. Can be very simple. [img]http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/roseal4/Icon%20Corner%20Pictures/Icon%20Corner%20full%20view.JPG[/img] [/quote] JMJ Thank you for the beautiful photo! This is a really silly question, but none of my icons have a place to hang them on a nail. Does anyone know how you get a picture to hang on the wall without one of those nail hangers on the back? I see there is an icon of St.Nicholas, he is my mom's favorite, something about him puching Arias (sp?) in the nose at the Council of Nicea really got her[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/shield.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChild Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 [quote name='brightsadness' date='20 January 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1264014010' post='2040887'] Icon Corner in the eastern part of the room. Place for prayer. Can be very simple. [img]http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/o/roseal4/Icon%20Corner%20Pictures/Icon%20Corner%20full%20view.JPG[/img] [/quote] I LOVE your icon Byzantine Cross! Isn't that taken from Mt Athos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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