How Often Are Mortal Sins Committed?

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='14 January 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1263519158' post='2037322']
We can analyze whether or not we commited a mortal sin or not until we're blue in the face. "Was it really a grave matter? Did it involve full knowledge or full consent? I don't know!" I say that as a rule of thumb, if you commit a sin that is a grave matter to just go to confession as soon as possible and don't receive Our Lord in communion until you do. Its much simpler that way.

I know some people who struggle with masturbation. That's probably a common one to fall into and to have a difficult time breaking that bad habit.
[/quote]

I would say that if you have to ask (sincerely, not by pulling wool over your eyes), then you couldn't possibly have had full knowledge. Ergo: venial sin.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='14 January 2010 - 10:35 AM' timestamp='1263494128' post='2037050']
I'm starting this thread as on off-shoot from the Poll about Reconciliation in the Debate phorum...

One user stated that they were surprised that anyone could go 2-4 weeks without falling into mortal sins [lest they be a nun]. This statement surprised me and started making second guess whether what I consider to be venial or seriously venial sins are actually mortal sins.

[No one need answer this post with personal information or experiences unless they really feel it would be helpful.]

How often does a practicing Catholic commit mortal sin?

My initial guess would be that much depends on how much one is tempted by sexual sin. But I don't want to make generalizations. What might other "typical" mortal sins would a practicing Catholic be likely to commit?

Thoughts?
[/quote]

well, since i made the statement... im hardly an expert, but that number is more of a likely average. the original point i was making was that i was fairly certain in claiming that its extremely unlikely a 40+ year old guy(who i am guessing is not a religious or saint, given available info and posting style) has never committed a mortal sin, in his life.

some people depending on willpower could commit way more or less sins than once a month. for instance, if masturbation is a mortal sin, it is quite possible to do that every day, and even a month is generally considered a fairly long time to hold off on that. (not that it isnt possible, but it is difficult)

and if hateful and lustful thoughts count(correct me if im wrong, i was just looking up mortal sins so i wouldnt sound like a complete idiot, but no guarantee )
then thats another possible couple times a week at least.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='15 January 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1263573781' post='2037743']

and if hateful and lustful thoughts count(correct me if im wrong, i was just looking up mortal sins so i wouldnt sound like a complete idiot, but no guarantee )
then thats another possible couple times a week at least.
[/quote]

From what I've been told by a theology professor of mine, is that the thoughts themselves just "popping into" one's mind is not commiting a sin, but to delight in them and to feed into such thoughts- to intentionally indulge in them is where it is a sin.

That reminds me of a joke that he told us in class. A man went to confession saying that he had lustful thoughts. The priest asked if he delighted in these thoughts and he said, "No Father, they delighted me."

[Happy_Catholic]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='15 January 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1263584409' post='2037823']
That reminds me of a joke that he told us in class. A man went to confession saying that he had lustful thoughts. The priest asked if he delighted in these thoughts and he said, "No Father, they delighted me."
[/quote]

Reminds me of this joke:

A guy walks into confession and tells the Priest that for the past week he has engaged in lewd sexual acts with a set of Swedish Triplet vollyball players. The priest is horrified "What kind of Catholic are you?" He exclaims. "Oh, I'm not a Catholic", the man replies. "Then why are you telling me this?" The Padre asks. "Oh, I'm telling everyone!"

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='15 January 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1263566192' post='2037701']
In the early Church, people were expected to go their whole lives without mortal sin after baptism. That's why penances were so severe; it was a scandal when a person fell into mortal sin. Today, our wise Mother instructs us that the minimum we should go to confession is once a year. If our Mother considered mortal sin to be a common experience for her children, one would think that the minimum would be a more respectable once a week. One should keep in mind that mortal sin is to venial sin as deliberation is to carelessness; as rebellion is to weakness. Full knowledge and full consent means deliberate rebellion. It is spiritual suicide; a kind of "weak apostasy" in that, while perhaps not explicitly renouncing your faith, you are fully engaging yourself toward an act of rebellion against your faith. People that focus on the grave matter of a sin, rather than full knowledge and consent, tend to fall into despair.

Example: Bob fornicates. Did Bob know that the choice of fornication was a matter of spiritual life and death (grave matter)? Did Bob consider this gravity before and during his act of fornication? If so, this would indicate full knowledge on Bob's part; deliberation toward the violation of a serious prohibition of his faith.

But did Bob make this choice to fornicate with the full capacity of his reason? Was his reason free of impairment by the influence of drugs / alcohol or lack of sleep? Was Bob mentally well? Was Bob free from any kind of mental duress that pressured him toward his action (e.g. hormones or perhaps a threat)? If so, this would indicate full consent on Bob's part; freely chosen rebellion against God's law.

Carelessness (pertaining to the intellect and thus, to full knowledge) and weakness (pertaining to the will and thus, to free consent) are typical of us all. Deliberation (full knowledge) and rebellion (full consent) should not be so typical. I believe mortal sin is uncommon for the active Catholic. All of this said, venial sin - if left unchecked - can lead us to mortal sin, which is why it is good to take advantage of confession on a regular basis (to say nothing of nightly examinations of conscience).
[/quote]

That's sort of how I've always viewed it.

I was just so thrown-off by the comment I read that it made me start second guessing it.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='15 January 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1263566192' post='2037701']
Today, our wise Mother instructs us that the minimum we should go to confession is once a year. If our Mother considered mortal sin to be a common experience for her children, one would think that the minimum would be a more respectable once a week. [/quote]

The Church also only requires that we receive Communion once a year.

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='15 January 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1263566192' post='2037701']
Example: Bob fornicates. Did Bob know that the choice of fornication was a matter of spiritual life and death (grave matter)? Did Bob consider this gravity before and during his act of fornication? If so, this would indicate full knowledge on Bob's part; deliberation toward the violation of a serious prohibition of his faith.

But did Bob make this choice to fornicate with the full capacity of his reason? Was his reason free of impairment by the influence of drugs / alcohol or lack of sleep? Was Bob mentally well? Was Bob free from any kind of mental duress that pressured him toward his action (e.g. hormones or perhaps a threat)? If so, this would indicate full consent on Bob's part; freely chosen rebellion against God's law.

Carelessness (pertaining to the intellect and thus, to full knowledge) and weakness (pertaining to the will and thus, to free consent) are typical of us all. Deliberation (full knowledge) and rebellion (full consent) should not be so typical. I believe mortal sin is uncommon for the active Catholic. All of this said, venial sin - if left unchecked - can lead us to mortal sin, which is why it is good to take advantage of confession on a regular basis (to say nothing of nightly examinations of conscience).
[/quote]

I think that you are exaggerating what is necessary for a mortal sin. Full knowledge and deliberate consent are not as rare as you are making them seem. Full knowledge simply means that the person knows that the sin is seriously wrong, and deliberate consent merely entails a person's freely choosing to commit the action.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Resurrexi

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='16 January 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1263616280' post='2038138']
I think that you are exaggerating what is necessary for a mortal sin. Full knowledge and deliberate consent are not as rare as you are making them seem. Full knowledge simply means that the person knows that the sin is seriously wrong, and deliberate consent merely entails a person's freely choosing to commit the action.
[/quote]

I get what you are saying, but in the case of someone who claims to love God, why would they "freely" choose to do something that they knew was seriously wrong and also was an offense to God? It would be like "freely" cheating on your spouse, knowing that this would be wrong and would hurt them (especially if you also knew that you couldn't posibly keep this hidden from them!)

Mortal sin just seems like such an unloving act towards God (if it is "freely" done).

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='nunsense' date='15 January 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1263616778' post='2038148']
I get what you are saying, but in the case of someone who claims to love God, why would they "freely" choose to do something that they knew was seriously wrong and also was an offense to God? It would be like "freely" cheating on your spouse, knowing that this would be wrong and would hurt them (especially if you also knew that you couldn't posibly keep this hidden from them!)[/quote]

Lots of people freely cheat on their spouses, even though they know that this is wrong and that their spouse will find out.

[quote name='nunsense' date='15 January 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1263616778' post='2038148']
Mortal sin just seems like such an unloving act towards God
[/quote]

Certainly. The theological virtue of charity is lost with every mortal sin.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Resurrexi

[AccountDeleted]

[quote]
Lots of people freely cheat on their spouses, even though they know that this is wrong and that their spouse will find out.[/quote]

Doesn't sound like love to me.



[quote]Certainly. The theological virtue of charity is lost with every mortal sin.
[/quote]

Yes, that makes sense, but how sad.

[zunshynn]

...

Edited January 16, 2010 by zunshynn

[HisChildForever]

This post might derail the thread a bit, if so, I apologize.

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='15 January 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1263617383' post='2038163']
The theological virtue of charity is lost with every mortal sin.
[/quote]

So when in a state of mortal sin, the person no longer has the virtue of charity, or do you mean that during the act of mortal sin the virtue of charity is not present?

Furthermore, since mortal sin cuts us from God's grace, what effect does this have on our prayers?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='16 January 2010 - 12:47 AM' timestamp='1263620868' post='2038235']
This post might derail the thread a bit, if so, I apologize.



So when in a state of mortal sin, the person no longer has the virtue of charity, or do you mean that during the act of mortal sin the virtue of charity is not present?[/quote]

The three theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity are infused into the soul by God at baptism. When a person commits a mortal sin and thus loses sanctifying grace, he also loses the theological virtue of charity, for charity and sanctifying grace are always present in the soul together. One can regain sanctifying grace, and, with it, the infused virtue of charity, by the Sacrament of Penance or by an act of perfect contrition with the intention of going to Confession as soon as possible.

From the Catechism:
"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1855)

Hope this helps.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Resurrexi

[KeenanParkerII]

Hm, it doesn't say all charity. I have to assume that one can still pray and experience God's love while in a state of mortal sin. I agree that mortal sin is probably much more common than we expect seeing as it's the intent and not the act itself which condemns. I wonder what role willpower plays in mortal sin. What if a temporary and legitimate lack of willpower lead to someone willfully committing a sin they knew to be sinful?

Edited January 16, 2010 by KeenanParkerII

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='15 January 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1263616280' post='2038138']
The Church also only requires that we receive Communion once a year. [/quote]

There is a huge difference. If I choose to only receive communion once a year, there is no immediate or certain threat of eternal damnation (although my proclivity toward mortal sin may increase from a weakened spiritual state).

So let's say that those in frequent despair (itself a grave sin) are correct, and mortal sin is a frequent occurrence; since the Eucharist is not a remedy for mortal sin, care for her children would not strictly necessitate Mother Church to require more frequent reception. She might (and does) [i]encourage [/i]frequent reception as a preventative for mortal sin, but since not receiving is not an immediate matter of life and death it need not be a grave requirement on a weekly basis. However, if mortal sin is - as those in despair or terror-based relationship with God often claim - a common occurrence for the active Catholic, then it is an immediate matter of life and death to receive absolution, and confession should be required once a week at minimum. If a fatal plague was commonly contracted, and local doctors supplied free shots that cured the plague, and a mother did not require her child to get that shot daily, I would call that mother neglectful at best.

I also notice that you conveniently ignored that bit about the early Church. Remember that ours is the religion of commonsense.

[quote]I think that you are exaggerating what is necessary for a mortal sin. Full knowledge and deliberate consent are not as rare as you are making them seem. Full knowledge simply means that the person knows that the sin is seriously wrong, and deliberate consent merely entails a person's freely choosing to commit the action.
[/quote]

Full knowledge and full consent are as common as deliberate rebellion. Deliberate rebellion is not the same as carelessness or weakness. That is all that I am saying. More often than not, sins in grave areas are occasions of carelessness or weakness. You cannot sin mortally by accident. You cannot be uncertain about being in a state of mortal sin. Full consent means full engagement of both reason and will, and such engagement cannot occur except by means of conscious, deliberate rebellion. Indeed, mortal sin engages all three powers of the spirit; memory, intellect, and will. This is why it fundamentally destroys all charity within the soul.

I understand and commend your desire to highlight the gravity of sin. Keep in mind that venial sin is not understood to be trivial or unimportant.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='16 January 2010 - 02:54 AM' timestamp='1263628479' post='2038364']
The three theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity are infused into the soul by God at baptism. When a person commits a mortal sin and thus loses sanctifying grace, he also loses the theological virtue of charity, for charity and sanctifying grace are always present in the soul together. One can regain sanctifying grace, and, with it, the infused virtue of charity, by the Sacrament of Penance or by an act of perfect contrition with the intention of going to Confession as soon as possible.

From the Catechism:
"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1855)

Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Reminds me of my Christian Moral Life class where we had to read a bunch of stuff from the Summa Theologiae and sometimes had an oral quiz on the reading.