Women Step Up To Altar:as Number Of Priests Dwindl

[Hananiah]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 9 2004, 09:28 AM'] [img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0895261448.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/img]

If anyone really even cares to be objective, this is a must read. Zealots, don't bother, it won't compute. And this is the truth today, the root of the problems with vocations.

[/quote]
Indeed. Our seminaries have gone down the toilet. The Church is in crisis.

[url="http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20040119.html"]http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20040119.html[/url]

[Bruce S]

Man, that was a very interesting read, thank you.

Looks like the Vatican curia took calculus however.

Hey, this saddens me, honestly, seminaries, of all denominations should be turning men and where allowed, women, away, not wondering where the next crop of future leaders will come from.

I will pray, that the Holy Spirit will lead where HE wants things lead, and that conditions for those that are believers will be conducive to vocations.

God bless and God provide.

Edited April 9, 2004 by Bruce S

[Dave]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 9 2004, 01:14 PM'] I will pray, that the Holy Spirit will lead where HE wants things lead, and that conditions for those that are believers will be conducive to vocations.

God bless and God provide. [/quote]
And what makes you so sure you know better where the Holy Spirit should lead?

[Bruce S]

[quote]And what makes you so sure you know better where the Holy Spirit should lead? [/quote]

Reread my post.

I don't speak for the HS, nor should any of us.

[Dave]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 9 2004, 01:34 PM']
Reread my post.

I don't speak for the HS, nor should any of us. [/quote]
The Holy Spirit guides the Church. So it's only right that the Church should do what the Holy Spirit wants, which of course it does.

[mulls]

dave he's not arguing with you bro.

[HS_Dad]

[quote name='PassionistF' date='Apr 9 2004, 08:19 AM'] The Catholic Church is responding to a crisis (we've seen them before Bruce) in a manner that doesn't seem to fit the mold of the Protestant view: Leave the Church, invent another .... oops, don't like the new Pastor, move on ... invent another ..... Don't like the music, move on .... Invent another.
[/quote]
Just an FYI the "leave the Church, invent another" element of Protestantism pretty much died with the culture wars arising out of the 1960's. Now Protestants increasingly are coalescing in non-denominational structures into two "uber" groupings: the "Mainline" or "Oldline" liberal members (groupings like the WCC in particular) who in practice reject Scripture in favor of modernism and Postmodernism and Evangelicals who are are coalescing around a non-doctrinally distinct orthodox Protestantism through groups like NAE, and various parachurch functionally oriented organizations which go beyond denominational labels. That's my take. Evangelicals are orthodox Catholics best friends on this earthly world.
An eventual rapprochement would be great as each brings their gifts and unite as one....(one can dream).

Ut unum sint!!!

[Bruce S]

[quote]An eventual rapprochement would be great as each brings their gifts and unite as one....(one can dream).
[/quote]

OK, unite with US and we are cool with it. Don't expect Evangelical's to get all excited about YOUR clergy running the show.

How about a real DEMOCRACTIC merger, each layperson gets ONE VOTE, and rotating office, four years, your side rules, then our side gets four years?

That is REAL ecumenism, not one side saying... "Come home"

[amarkich]

Bruce, you make the mistake (when quoting Catholics) of taking an individual's heresy and presenting at some kind of division within the Church (as if the Church could ever have contradictory teaching). I think it is absolutely hilarious that you bring up the modern innovations that have been introduced into the Liturgy because it is so clear to any candid inquirer that the Novus Ordo changes parallel those of the protestant revolution. The only problem with your statement concerning the innovations is that it is within the Church's authority to change the Liturgy even to the extent and the evils used in the New Mass (hand Communion, armies of women, etc). It is even possible for the Church to make these things to the point of not being sinful but not beyond that (they may very well be sinful, and certainly are, for anyone who has a well developed conscience and understands the issue). The fact that the Liturgy has been destroyed by Bugnini and others (most of which were Masons--apparently it is fine to be a Mason today in New Mass circles but not a Traditionalist) does not mean that the Church has erred. It does mean, however, that there is a great scandal among all men, especially considering the fact that it appears as if the protestants "got it right" with their blasphemous services that were instituted after the revolution. It is interesting (I do not know what the New Mass has assigned for today's prayer--it may follow the protestant mentality as you have pointed out about the Mass itself--but one of the Traditional Latin Rite prayers is as follows): "Oremus et pro haereticis et schismaticis: ut Deus et Dominus noster eruat eos ab erroribus universis; et ad sanctam matrem Ecclesiam Catholicam atque Apostolicam revocare dignetur." which translates as: "Let us pray also for heretics and schismatics: that our Lord God would be pleased to rescue them from all their errors; and recall them to our holy mother the Catholic and Apostolic Church." This should be the prayer of all those who are in the Truth--that the grace of God will be accepted by all who are outside the Church that they may return to God through the Church which He founded, outside of which there is no salvation. God bless.

[CreepyCrawler]

Back to the original point of this post, I think.
I have a question: what's the big deal if more women get involved in ministry as long as they're not priests? The most special thing about being a priest is doing Mass and being a part of the mystery of the Transubstantiation (I'm not sure how to word it w/o making sound like magic). And the priestly vocation is closed to women, so I don't think that people should feel like the priesthood is being threatened just because a woman is in charge of accounting or music or even parish activities. The priesthood is more than just management of churches, right? That's my opinion.

[ericLTcore]

Congratulations Bruce! You get my first post. I applaud you for bringing that article to phatmass.com. It's true, the Church is suffering from a lack of good men entering our seminaries. Perhaps some of our male readers will recognize God's voice in Bruce and answer His plead for real men to return to the vocation to which they were called since before they were born!

In the meantime, I like to remind myself that while the numbers are dropping, it only took Jesus 12 disciples to change the world. I'll take quality over quantity any day!

And equal thanks to our Catholic sisters who recognize the priesthood as a masculine vocation since it is a call to servitude -- society can interpret our male-only priesthood however they want, but the simple fact is that real men serve their women just as Jesus serves His Church...

[maxk]

I am a senior in high school and I am planning to enter the seminary next year for the Diocese of Rockford, Illinois. All I have seen growing up is how my diocese, which has been known throughout the country (if not the world) to be quite orthodox, has not had ANY problems with vocations. It seems to me that many of the wacky dioceses and religious orders who like to bend the norms set up by Mother Church through VATICAN II (NOT the spirit of Vatican II) have many more problems getting enough vocations. hmmmm... it's like they're shooting themselves in the foot......

[Iacobus]

Diocese of Rockford!! An other Rockfordcan? Last year we ordined 11 men but these next few years are small numbers.

[maxk]

Actually, I know some guys that are in 1st year major seminary that are suppose to end up having a pretty big class. In three years, we'll pack the Cathedral again with another gigorkic ordination...

[Iacobus]

Sweet!