Guest DanielNicholas Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 My main point is Noahs ark and the global flood. If you read the Noahs ark story, it goes into great detail on almost all the details. Exactly how big the ark was (450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high). What kind of animals Noah ate. What mountain the boat came to rest on (Mount Ararat in Turkey). How long Noah had to load the animals onto the boat. All these little insignificant details that the author seems to have gone into so much effort, to prove that such an occurance happened? And don't get into an arguement if it happened or not. You're supossed to interpret this 'metaphorically'. [url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1263276441' post='2035256'] And don't get into an arguement if it happened or not. You're supossed to interpret this 'metaphorically'. [url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html[/url] [/quote] Why? I find it interesting you link to that site. Genesis is not all history in the way you understand the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1263276441' post='2035256'] My main point is Noahs ark and the global flood. If you read the Noahs ark story, it goes into great detail on almost all the details. Exactly how big the ark was (450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high). What kind of animals Noah ate. What mountain the boat came to rest on (Mount Ararat in Turkey). How long Noah had to load the animals onto the boat. All these little insignificant details that the author seems to have gone into so much effort, to prove that such an occurance happened? And don't get into an arguement if it happened or not. You're supossed to interpret this 'metaphorically'. [url="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html"]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html[/url] [/quote] I guess I wonder why a person tries so hard to prove that something written in the Bible isn't literally correct. I mean, are you really trying to say that since you can't believe in the Noah's Ark story, you aren't going to believe anything else? Why not just come out and say that then? Personally, I believe that ANYTHING is possible because God is who God is. If someone proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Noah's Ark was impossible, and even took me back in time in their time machine and showed me that it never happened that way, I would say, "Fine, but God could still do it if He wanted to. God is God." That is what I call faith. It doesn't matter to me whether Noah ever existed or not, but the story tells me something about God's anguish over the sins of mankind, and His remorse and being forced to cleanse His creation the way He did. Personally, what I read into the story is that God is ever loving and patient with us, and wants so much for us to love Him back. End of story for me. I am so grateful for faith, that's all I can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 I wonder whether atheists are trying to convince us or themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbo Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='12 January 2010 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1263290339' post='2035295'] I wonder whether atheists are trying to convince us or themselves. [/quote] The problem atheists have is that we never know what Christians actually believe, sometimes not even after a particular believer has tried explaining his/her view on which bits of the Bible are historical and which metaphorical. A lot of the time, they're not even sure themselves... at least, not sure enough to be coherent in their explanations. There are plenty on-line who will argue till they're blue in the face that the flood did happen, explains the demise of the dinosaurs (and some very, er, "interesting" things about geology). As a (hopefully) amusing aside, I even [url="http://www.amiright.com/parody/70s/donmclean130.shtml"]wrote a song[/url] about one such debate. That all the physical & living evidence shows the literal story of a global flood to be impossible doesn't stop people believing - I've even had it argued that the existence of flood myths & stories from around the world somehow proves the biblical story that only Noah and his family were left alive.. which is just plain stupid whatever you happen to believe. So next time you think it's vaguely amusing that some atheist isn't sure what in the Bible is supposed to be literally true and what's a metaphor, please bear in mind it's even more true of Christians themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 01:07 AM' timestamp='1263276441' post='2035256'] All these little insignificant details that the author seems to have gone into so much effort, to prove that such an occurance happened? [/quote] By what standard do you deem them insignificant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='philbo' date='12 January 2010 - 08:41 AM' timestamp='1263303678' post='2035318'] The problem atheists have is that we never know what Christians actually believe, sometimes not even after a particular believer has tried explaining his/her view on which bits of the Bible are historical and which metaphorical. A lot of the time, they're not even sure themselves... at least, not sure enough to be coherent in their explanations. There are plenty on-line who will argue till they're blue in the face that the flood did happen, explains the demise of the dinosaurs (and some very, er, "interesting" things about geology). As a (hopefully) amusing aside, I even [url="http://www.amiright.com/parody/70s/donmclean130.shtml"]wrote a song[/url] about one such debate. That all the physical & living evidence shows the literal story of a global flood to be impossible doesn't stop people believing - I've even had it argued that the existence of flood myths & stories from around the world somehow proves the biblical story that only Noah and his family were left alive.. which is just plain stupid whatever you happen to believe. So next time you think it's vaguely amusing that some atheist isn't sure what in the Bible is supposed to be literally true and what's a metaphor, please bear in mind it's even more true of Christians themselves. [/quote] I see it the other way round. Every atheist I've debated with fires a bunch of misconceptions at me that the only I answer i can give is "I don't believe that either". I just end up saying "if it's not in the catechism then we don't believe it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Yep. Its rarely what we actually believe that atheists argue about, its always what [i]they think[/i] we believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbo Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='OraProMe' date='12 January 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1263305724' post='2035324'] I see it the other way round. Every atheist I've debated with fires a bunch of misconceptions at me that the only I answer i can give is "I don't believe that either". I just end up saying "if it's not in the catechism then we don't believe it". [/quote] *every* atheist? Misconceptions are common, and from both sides of the divide - I'veheard some utterly ridiculous definitions of atheism from theists(yeah, like I really worship Darwin); but I do find that there is sucha bewildering array of what theists believe that I'm not surprised thatpeople get things wrong. It's why I do my very best not to make assertions about what other people believe.. but sometimes one has to have something on which to hang a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='philbo' date='12 January 2010 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1263312446' post='2035376'] *every* atheist?[/quote] Every atheist he's debated. You must have missed the qualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbo Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='Winchester' date='12 January 2010 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1263314889' post='2035394'] Every atheist he's debated. You must have missed the qualifier. [/quote] I was kind of hoping he'd end up debating me about something - after all, you seem the sort who would jump in if someone said "all Christians I've ever spoken to were certifiable loonies" - same principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 (edited) [size="5"][font="Impact"][b][u][color="#00FF00"][b][font="Arial"]READ G.K. CHESTERTON[/font][/b][/color][/u][/b][/font][/size] Edited January 12, 2010 by sacredheartandbloodofjesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='philbo' date='12 January 2010 - 08:41 AM' timestamp='1263303678' post='2035318'] The problem atheists have is that we never know what Christians actually believe, sometimes not even after a particular believer has tried explaining his/her view on which bits of the Bible are historical and which metaphorical. A lot of the time, they're not even sure themselves... at least, not sure enough to be coherent in their explanations. There are plenty on-line who will argue till they're blue in the face that the flood did happen, explains the demise of the dinosaurs (and some very, er, "interesting" things about geology). As a (hopefully) amusing aside, I even [url="http://www.amiright.com/parody/70s/donmclean130.shtml"]wrote a song[/url] about one such debate. That all the physical & living evidence shows the literal story of a global flood to be impossible doesn't stop people believing - I've even had it argued that the existence of flood myths & stories from around the world somehow proves the biblical story that only Noah and his family were left alive.. which is just plain stupid whatever you happen to believe. So next time you think it's vaguely amusing that some atheist isn't sure what in the Bible is supposed to be literally true and what's a metaphor, please bear in mind it's even more true of Christians themselves. [/quote] And yet how many athiests believe that nothing combined with nothing and created something. That is something science shows as impossible. So pot.. kettle.. black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 [quote name='philbo' date='12 January 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1263316296' post='2035409'] I was kind of hoping he'd end up debating me about something - after all, you seem the sort who would jump in if someone said "all Christians I've ever spoken to were certifiable loonies" - same principle. [/quote] I would call it anecdotal evidence, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 [quote name='philbo' date='13 January 2010 - 04:11 AM' timestamp='1263316296' post='2035409'] Christians I've ever spoken to were certifiable loonies" - same principle. [/quote] Leave me out of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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