What Do Catholics Believe In Accordance With Evolution?

[mommas_boy]

I'm planning my upcoming unit on evolution. Nova on PBS had this incredibly fascinating documentary called "What Darwin Never Knew", and I plan on showing it to my kids. You can watch the whole thing for free online here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/darwin-never-knew.html

(( Click the "Watch What Darwin Never Knew" link, just below the picture of the chicken embryo. ))

There's also a lot of great interactive stuff on there too.

Anyway, the film is divided into two parts. The first is a pretty standard review of Darwin's basic theory. But the second is much more fascinating: it examines the biochemistry behind evolution -- just how these mutations come about.

For example, a mutation in just one base ... not even a base pair, but a single base in DNA is all that it took to inhibit the development of thigh-size muscles in apes that were attached to their jaws and the tops of their skulls. This is crucial to the researcher who discovered it because he theorized that it allowed our brains to reach their current size.

Great stuff. Have a look!

[Happy_Catholic]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 January 2010 - 04:48 PM' timestamp='1263246504' post='2035022']
What I meant by saying "probably not evolution" is I think human height over the last few hundred years is more a function of environment than evolution. Of course I may be wrong, and it may be very subtle evolution.
[/quote]

When I was doing a science paper, we covered why "modern" humans have not evolved, apparently one opinion is that we have no need to evolve biologically because we now just adapt the environment to suit ourselves as opposed to nature adapting us. For example, when we developed clothing, fire and shelter we lost our full body suit of fuzz. I'd reckon if we had ourselves a fancy nuclear war and we ended up back in the stone age, with very few individuals able to recreate our current society, we'd probably start evolving again or perhaps de-evolving.

I mean, how many people who play video games these days could know how to light a fire with two rocks? Would they know what rocks too look for? Or could the average Joe build a simple hydro dam or craft an antibotic?

Edited January 12, 2010 by Happy_Catholic

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='10 January 2010 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1263185313' post='2034410']
So I've heard that they don't believe in human evolution, however they believe evolution has occured with animals.

What is the official opinion of this?

Also, The Catechism claims there are no conflicts with faith and science? But what about when the Catholic church put Galileo Galilei under house arrest for suggesting the Earth is flat? And they had burned people alive on the stake (I forgot his name), for the belief that the Earth is flat?
[/quote]

Wasnt this DanielNicholas the same guy who came posting something like this and never returned? I think it was about the decline of Christianity according to numbers and the rise of atheism.

[Vincent Vega]

Oh the one who wore all the eye makeup?

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='12 January 2010 - 07:32 AM' timestamp='1263241963' post='2034968']however Galileo had no proof his theory was correct. The Church has been the greatest supporter of science until recent times, when governments started pouring money into research. 365 craters on the moon are namedfor Jesuit priests who were astronomers. The Big Bang Theory was first proposed by a priest [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Galileo had no proof his theory was correct? (Well to be considered a theory it requires evidence in the first place, otherwise it would be referred to as a hypothesus.)

I seriously, seriously doubt he had no proof. The Ancient Greeks and Arabs (After the arrival of Muhammad, Muhammad thought the Earth was flat) knew the Earth was spherical and measured how large this spherical Earth was based on measurements calculated from the shadows of the sun.

[Vincent Vega]

Firstly, it wasn't his theory, it was Aristarchus's. Secondly, the controversy was not about whether or not the Earth is flat, but rather if it orbited the sun, or if the sun orbited it.

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='11 January 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1263188978' post='2034441']
There is nothing in our teachings that are contrary to the theory of evolution. I love the term "intelligent design."
[/quote]


Intelligent design has nothing to do with evolution, It has been consistently show than you complex structure such as eyes, hearts, can be formed by small evolutionairy changes. It does not require a 'designer'. It's random in an essence, however it's not random?

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='12 January 2010 - 04:24 PM' timestamp='1263273861' post='2035225']
Firstly, it wasn't his theory, it was Aristarchus's. Secondly, the controversy was not about whether or not the Earth is flat, but rather if it orbited the sun, or if the sun orbited it.
[/quote]


I'm sort of convinced the bible does speak of a geocentric universe. It does often refer to the Earth has fixed, it can't be moved.

And in one bible story I read God had "froze the sun in the sky for a whole day".

But that would be impossible, because the Earth is spinning at 500 metres a second, and it's revolving around the sun at 30km per second.

If the Earth stopped suddenly (to make the sun appear frozen in the sky), wouldn't the sudden change of inertia throw everyone into spaces at hundreds of kilometres an hour?

Not to mention catastrophic changes to tidal systems and birds would fall out of the sky?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 01:22 AM' timestamp='1263273736' post='2035224']
Galileo had no proof his theory was correct? (Well to be considered a theory it requires evidence in the first place, otherwise it would be referred to as a hypothesus.)

I seriously, seriously doubt he had no proof. The Ancient Greeks and Arabs (After the arrival of Muhammad, Muhammad thought the Earth was flat) knew the Earth was spherical and measured how large this spherical Earth was based on measurements calculated from the shadows of the sun.
[/quote]
Feel free to doubt then . It had nothing to do with the earth being flat, everyone knew the earth was round, it considered if the sun orbited the earth or the earth the sun. And no he had to proof.

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1263274410' post='2035231']
I'm sort of convinced the bible does speak of a geocentric universe. It does often refer to the Earth has fixed, it can't be moved.

And in one bible story I read God had "froze the sun in the sky for a whole day".

But that would be impossible, because the Earth is spinning at 500 metres a second, and it's revolving around the sun at 30km per second.

If the Earth stopped suddenly (to make the sun appear frozen in the sky), wouldn't the sudden change of inertia throw everyone into spaces at hundreds of kilometres an hour?

Not to mention catastrophic changes to tidal systems and birds would fall out of the sky?
[/quote]


The Earth is spinning at 0.5km/per second which is [size="4"]1670 km/hr to get a sense of realization of how fast we're moving.[/size]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 01:33 AM' timestamp='1263274410' post='2035231']
I'm sort of convinced the bible does speak of a geocentric universe. It does often refer to the Earth has fixed, it can't be moved.

And in one bible story I read God had "froze the sun in the sky for a whole day".

But that would be impossible, because the Earth is spinning at 500 metres a second, and it's revolving around the sun at 30km per second.

If the Earth stopped suddenly (to make the sun appear frozen in the sky), wouldn't the sudden change of inertia throw everyone into spaces at hundreds of kilometres an hour?

Not to mention catastrophic changes to tidal systems and birds would fall out of the sky?
[/quote]
The Scripture is not a science book, but if God wanted to make the sun appear to freeze in the sky He is perfectly capable of it
If you want a more recent occurrance of such activity, the sun danced 17 Oct 1917, and it was witnessed by over 50,000 people at Fatima Portugal.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1263274410' post='2035231']
I'm sort of convinced the bible does speak of a geocentric universe. It does often refer to the Earth has fixed, it can't be moved.

And in one bible story I read God had "froze the sun in the sky for a whole day".

But that would be impossible, because the Earth is spinning at 500 metres a second, and it's revolving around the sun at 30km per second.

If the Earth stopped suddenly (to make the sun appear frozen in the sky), wouldn't the sudden change of inertia throw everyone into spaces at hundreds of kilometres an hour?

Not to mention catastrophic changes to tidal systems and birds would fall out of the sky?
[/quote]
I'm not sure what this has to do with evolution, but in any case, I vaguely remember the story of which you speak. It's to be remembered that Catholics do not take a literalistic approach to interpreting the scriptures. It's hard to know exactly what is meant by that passage without it in front of me, but I'd be willing to bet that the point of it is probably less about the sun standing still and more about some other, more theologically important truth, i.e., the power of God.

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='12 January 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1263275010' post='2035235']
The Scripture is not a science book, but if God wanted to make the sun appear to freeze in the sky He is perfectly capable of it [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
If you want a more recent occurrance of such activity, the sun danced 17 Oct 1917, and it was witnessed by over 50,000 people at Fatima Portugal.
[/quote]


No movement or other phenomenon of the sun was registered by scientists at the time.[sup][url="#cite_note-heart-1"][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][2][/color][/size][/url][/sup] According to contemporary reports from poet Afonso Lopes Vieira and schoolteacher Delfina Lopes with her students and other witnesses in the town of Alburita, the solar phenomenon were visible from up to forty kilometers away. Despite these assertions, not all witnesses reported seeing the sun "dance". Some people only saw the radiant colors, and others, including some believers, saw nothing at all.[url=""][sup][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][10][/color][/size][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][11[/color][/size][/sup][/url]No movement or other phenomenon of the sun was registered by scientists at the time.[url="#cite_note-heart-1"][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][sup][2][/sup][/color][/size][/url] According to contemporary reports from poet Afonso Lopes Vieira and schoolteacher Delfina Lopes with her students and other witnesses in the town of Alburita, the solar phenomenon were visible from up to forty kilometers away. Despite these assertions, not all witnesses reported seeing the sun "dance". Some people only saw the radiant colors, and others, including some believers, saw nothing at all.[url=""][sup][u][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][10][11[/color][/size][/u][/sup][/url]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima#Miracle_of_the_Sun"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima#Miracle_of_the_Sun[/url]

I don't believe it happened, thousands of people have claimed to see UFO's, the Lochness Monster, etc. Including the fact that some Catholics didn't see the sun change or dance.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='DanielNicholas' date='12 January 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1263275680' post='2035245']
No movement or other phenomenon of the sun was registered by scientists at the time.[sup][url="#cite_note-heart-1"][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][2][/color][/size][/url][/sup] According to contemporary reports from poet Afonso Lopes Vieira and schoolteacher Delfina Lopes with her students and other witnesses in the town of Alburita, the solar phenomenon were visible from up to forty kilometers away. Despite these assertions, not all witnesses reported seeing the sun "dance". Some people only saw the radiant colors, and others, including some believers, saw nothing at all.[url=""][sup][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][10][/color][/size][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][11[/color][/size][/sup][/url]No movement or other phenomenon of the sun was registered by scientists at the time.[url="#cite_note-heart-1"][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][sup][2][/sup][/color][/size][/url] According to contemporary reports from poet Afonso Lopes Vieira and schoolteacher Delfina Lopes with her students and other witnesses in the town of Alburita, the solar phenomenon were visible from up to forty kilometers away. Despite these assertions, not all witnesses reported seeing the sun "dance". Some people only saw the radiant colors, and others, including some believers, saw nothing at all.[url=""][sup][u][size="2"][color="#002bb8"][10][11[/color][/size][/u][/sup][/url]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima#Miracle_of_the_Sun"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima#Miracle_of_the_Sun[/url]

I don't believe it happened, thousands of people have claimed to see UFO's, the Lochness Monster, etc. Including the fact that some Catholics didn't see the sun change or dance.
[/quote]
Dearie I read the wiki article as well as accounts of people present. It doesn't really matter what scientists miles away registered, it matters that thousands of people who were there did. The anti-catholic newspaper men saw it and believed it and some of them converted as a result. Wiki also doesn't mention it had rained for several days and when the sun finished "dancing" everything including the wet people were dry.

[Guest DanielNicholas]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='12 January 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1263276469' post='2035257']
....Wiki also doesn't mention it had rained for several days and when the sun finished "dancing" everything including the wet people were dry.
[/quote]


LOL you're so funny, of course the sun makes wet people dry.

Without the sun the water wouldn't evaporate.