India: Catholic, Orthodox [Non-Chalcedonian] Churches Agree To Share

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='nunsense' date='13 January 2010 - 01:03 AM' timestamp='1263362593' post='2035942']
Ok, so here is where my ignorance shows again but I thought the main difference was the filioque - but they don't recognise the primacy of the Pope either? So what level of communion do we have with them? I guess I need to study up on all the different rites to learn a bit more.
[/quote]

There is actually a large number of issues about which the Eastern Orthodox are in serious doctrinal error. Not only do they reject the dogmas primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff and the dogma of the procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son, but they also reject the indissolubility of marriage.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='13 January 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1263362732' post='2035944']
There is actually a large number of issues about which the Eastern Orthodox are in serious doctrinal error. Not only do they reject the dogmas primacy and infallibility of the Roman Pontiff and the dogma of the procession of the Holy Spirit from both the Father and the Son, but they also reject the indissolubility of marriage.
[/quote]

Wow - I had no idea - thank you. Are their consecrations and ordinations considered valid by Rome? I don't suppose Catholics are allowed to receive Communion in their churches, or not? I don't mean to hijack this thread, and I guess I can look all this up online, but since you are here and posting, I just thought I would ask.....

[OraProMe]

[quote name='nunsense' date='13 January 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1263360425' post='2035892']
Well, I for one am still confused because I very nicely asked for an explanation of this dilemma, and instead of getting one, I got a long quotation in Latin, which even the online Latin to English translator couldn't understand. I said my thanks to God, but I would still like to know what the debate is all about, if anyone would have the charity to enlighten someone as ignorant as I am (and in English this time please)
[/quote]

It's from the canon of the Mass. "Una cum" means "one with [our Pope]". The Orthodox aren't in union with the Pope.

[OraProMe]

x 2 on what Rex said.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='nunsense' date='13 January 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1263363016' post='2035947']
Wow - I had no idea - thank you. Are their consecrations and ordinations considered valid by Rome? I don't suppose Catholics are allowed to receive Communion in their churches, or not?
[/quote]

Yes, Eastern Orthodox bishops, priests, and deacons possess valid holy Orders.

No, you cannot receive holy Communion in an Eastern Orthodox church, even though their Eucharistic Liturgy is valid.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Resurrexi

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='13 January 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1263364299' post='2035969']
Yes, Eastern Orthodox bishops, priests, and deacons possess valid holy Orders.

No, you cannot receive holy Communion in an Eastern Orthodox church, even though their Eucharistic Liturgy is valid.


[/quote]


Thank you very much. I appreciate all your help with this.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='12 January 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1263362318' post='2035937']
I can't speak for Ora, but I would see an Eastern Orthodox priest celebrating my funeral as problematic since the Eastern Orthodox are out of full communion with the Supreme Pontiff. I'd rather have no funeral at all, in fact, than one that's celebrated by a cleric who's outside of the Catholic Church.
[/quote]
A point of clarification: None of the Churches involved in this agreement are Eastern Orthodox.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='13 January 2010 - 07:41 PM' timestamp='1263372113' post='2036014']
A point of clarification: None of the Churches involved in this agreement are Eastern Orthodox.
[/quote]


If you would like to, could you explain what these churches are and how they differ from EO? Enquiring minds want to know. (In English please).

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='nunsense' date='13 January 2010 - 02:11 AM' timestamp='1263373899' post='2036024']
If you would like to, could you explain what these churches are and how they differ from EO? Enquiring minds want to know. (In English please).
[/quote]
The Churches involved in this agreement are sometimes called [i][url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10489b.htm"]Monophysites[/url][/i] (which means "one nature"), or [i]Non-Chalcedonians[/i], i.e., because they rejected the Christological teaching of the Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451).

The names [i]Oriental[/i] Orthodox and [i]Miaphysite[/i] are also used to describe the Churches that have participated in the present agreement.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Apotheoun

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='13 January 2010 - 08:29 PM' timestamp='1263374969' post='2036029']
The Churches involved in this agreement are sometimes called [i]Monophysites[/i] (which means "one nature"), or [i]Non-Chalcedonians[/i], i.e., because they rejected the Christological teaching of the Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451).

The names [i]Oriental[/i] Orthodox and [i]Miaphysite[/i] are also used to describe the Churches that have participated in the present agreement.
[/quote]

Thank you. This is a very complex subject I can see.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='nunsense' date='13 January 2010 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1263375186' post='2036030']
This is a very complex subject I can see.
[/quote]
Yes it is.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='nunsense' date='13 January 2010 - 03:33 AM' timestamp='1263375186' post='2036030']
Thank you. This is a very complex subject I can see.
[/quote]
You could say that a hundred more times.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='13 January 2010 - 04:29 AM' timestamp='1263374969' post='2036029']
The names [i]Oriental[/i] Orthodox and [i]Miaphysite[/i] are also used to describe the Churches that have participated in the present agreement.
[/quote]

[i]Oriental[/i] is synonymous with [i]Eastern[/i]. They mean the exact same thing, namely, of or relating to the east. That said, I realize that the Churches being discussed are not in communion with Bartholomew of Constantinople.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='13 January 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1263422110' post='2036468']
[i]Oriental[/i] is synonymous with [i]Eastern[/i]. They mean the exact same thing, namely, of or relating to the east. That said, I realize that the Churches being discussed are not in communion with Bartholomew of Constantinople.
[/quote]
Yes, I know that, but the common usage of these terms when referring to various ancient apostolic Churches has been given a technical meaning, so that "Eastern" is used for those Churches of the East that accept the Chalcedonian decree (e.g., the Greek Orthodox Church, the Russian Orthodox Church, etc.), while "Oriental" is used for those Churches that reject Chalcedon's Christological formulation (e.g., the Coptic Church of Egypt, the Jacobites in Syria, etc.). This is just the common way of referring to the differences between the Chalcedonian and Non-Chalcedonian Churches.

Now, if we want to talk about how each of these Churches refers itself . . . then we would have to say that each one believes that it is the Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church.

[Anastasia13]

So what do y'all think of this now?