Vocation To The Single Life

[BarbTherese]

[quote]something a bit more objective and looked at from the perspective of the Church.[/quote]

Certainly I have researched the matter and my private vows and way o flife of 35 years standing now - and simply wanted to share that objective research - are with spiritual direction and every step along the way with the advice of a priest and also a confirmation letter from an Archbishop on diocesan letterhead that I had made a good and wise choice in deciding for private vows and not canonical ones.........i.e. "single life" or "celibate state" with private vows.
My research has nothing to do with the fact that I have made private vows and certainly I would have stated this if I felt it was necessary. My posts often are general statements of research and not at all directed at any one particular person.
[quote]That's why I didn't want you to feel that you had to answer the one that I addressed to aloysius and cappie about private vows. That frees you up to answer the other ones to you since your time is limited.[/quote]
You are quite free to read only the posts by posters that you prefer - and I am quite free to explain myself or to not do so - to post or not to post. And I am rather good at arriving at my own decisions ifnecessary.

Barb

Edited January 11, 2010 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' date='11 January 2010 - 01:49 PM' timestamp='1263178149' post='2034312']
Certainly I have researched the matter and my private vows and way o flife of 35 years standing now - and simply wanted to share that objective research - are with spiritual direction and every step along the way with the advice of a priest and also a confirmation letter from an Archbishop on diocesan letterhead that I had made a good and wise choice in deciding for private vows and not canonical ones.


Barb
[/quote]


I am sorry if I offended you as that was not my intention.

I am deleting my post as the more I write, the more it seems to offend you, probably because I don't seem to make myself clear. My apologies..... we had the same problem in Vocation Station. I will withdraw from this thread as well.

Edited January 11, 2010 by nunsense

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='nunsense' date='11 January 2010 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1263178779' post='2034320']
I am sorry if I offended you as that was not my intention.

I am deleting my post as the more I write, the more it seems to offend you, probably because I don't seem to make myself clear. My apologies..... we had the same problem in Vocation Station. I will withdraw from this thread as well.
[/quote]

Your decision, Nunsense. A copy of your deleted post landed in my Inbox. You are not offending me, this is a conclusion that you are arriving at. I just wanted to clarify about my private vows since you brought the matter up. I had nothing at all to do with, insfoar as I know, your withdrawal from a thread in Vocation Station - in fact I commended your for what I think may have been your final post, I cannot recall. It was another poster addressing you that prompted you to withdraw insofar as I am aware from the thread in question. It bemuses me why you brought the subject up - and no matter. Certainly at times our opinions differed - and this can happen in discussions. Perhpas it seems I may have offended you and this was never intended - only that some of your concepts I did not agree with and did feel that I had the right to disagree.
If you are still discerning your vocation in life, if it were me I would be guided by wise spiritual direction all the way. God's blessing on your discernment.

Barb

[Norseman82]

[quote name='tinytherese' date='10 January 2010 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1263164168' post='2034155']
Hmm, what can be said of someone who was married in the Church, got a divorce but was refused an annulment?

Another thought I had is that single doesn't just mean that one has never been married. What about those who have suffered the loss of a spouse in death? Certainly they would not be required to remarry. Some only find one right person for them.
[/quote]

First, the person who is divorced and has not gotten an annulment is the one biblical example where a person must remain single (or remarry their former spouse).

Widowhood can be a form of singlehood, or it can be considered a part of the married voaction (depending on the age; I know St. Paul in one of the Timothy epistles listed 60 as the dividing line as to when to enroll widows to the roll of widows).

But the point is that I see a lot of "creeping Calvinism" in the Church today, maybe because we are being influenced by too many slick-talking evangelical TV preachers that give us the impression that God is a micromanaging God Who has our lives pre-planned, which can be an appealing thing for those who are indecisive (I remember one poster here saying something to the effect that if God didn't tell her whom to marry, how would she be able to pick a spouse?). It's almost like the Star Trek episode "Return of the Archons": when Kirk and Spock destroyed the computer Landru, the populace were wandering around crying "Landru, guide us" because they could not think on their own.

A lot of the "well, what about X" examples we are given can most probably be classified as rare exceptions of those who may have impediments to married or religious life; however, those rare exceptions should not be used to try to discourage eligible people who are seeking marriage.

And I will say again what I have said elsewhere: with the difficulty that practicing Catholics are having finding a compatible practicing Catholic spouse (and with the shortage of priests, as well as the fact that our Catholic schools are so expensive because there are fewer brothers and nuns to teach), WHY IN THE WORLD ARE WE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO TAKE THEMSELVES OUT OF THE "POOL"?

Whereas the Church does not force people to marry or enter religious life, neither should people be inventing a vocation to DISCOURAGE people from them, either, because that is what I've seen the whole stupid "single vocation" and all the buzzwords associated with it do.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='06 January 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1262797865' post='2030898']
If someone is single their entire life, what are they, "vocationless"?
[/quote]


[quote name='Hilde' date='06 January 2010 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1262818403' post='2031188']
I even think loneliness might be a problem if I were to life the religious life, but I might be wrong.
[/quote]

I do believe that everyone is called to singleness at one time, temporarily, to fully understand themselves. If you have no sense of self how can you freely give yourself to another.

The dating pool is poisoned? I guess I have met a hundred girls who i would love to direct them properly to Jesus Christ and his Church, because nobody had the courage to do it before, and well, I wasn't called and the pressure is off of me. But i do think that we are in a vocation mess, because a lot of people do not have the humility to accept courage from God, the courage to know their true self, their true self enough to give to God generously. But we can never quite know who does or doesn't do God's will until they are canonized, at least we might know who did, we can never know who didnt. Anyways I'm rambling.

I chose to be single, and soon discovered what I believed to be a vocation to the religious life, to which I am following. If I had been dating, or in a community, I doubt I would have had the clarity to understand that about myself.

What else I learned, being single must be "Single by Choice, not by circumstance."

[Arpy]

[quote name='Norseman82' date='10 January 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1263179727' post='2034340']
But the point is that I see a lot of "creeping Calvinism" in the Church today, maybe because we are being influenced by too many slick-talking evangelical TV preachers that give us the impression that God is a micromanaging God Who has our lives pre-planned, which can be an appealing thing for those who are indecisive (I remember one poster here saying something to the effect that if God didn't tell her whom to marry, how would she be able to pick a spouse?). It's almost like the Star Trek episode "Return of the Archons": when Kirk and Spock destroyed the computer Landru, the populace were wandering around crying "Landru, guide us" because they could not think on their own.
[/quote]
Thank you for this bit in general and the Star Trek reference especially. I know I've been dreadfully indecisive about my vocation and other things as well, and this has further helped me to realise that I do need to carpe the diem (or college choice, or vocation, or whatever).

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Arpy' date='11 January 2010 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1263190638' post='2034464']
Thank you for this bit in general and the Star Trek reference especially. I know I've been dreadfully indecisive about my vocation and other things as well, and this has further helped me to realise that I do need to carpe the diem (or college choice, or vocation, or whatever).
[/quote]

I don't know how old you are arpy, but since I was around when Star Trek first started, I would most heartily endorse your decision to carpe diem (or whatever the Vulcan equivalent is) with your life decisions before you end up as old as I am and still trying to figure it out!!!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' date='11 January 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1263179395' post='2034331']
You are not offending me, this is a conclusion that you are arriving at.

Perhpas it seems I may have offended you and this was never intended - only that some of your concepts I did not agree with and did feel that I had the right to disagree.

If you are still discerning your vocation in life, if it were me I would be guided by wise spiritual direction all the way. God's blessing on your discernment.

Barb
[/quote]

Barb - Perhaps I am reading something of an attitude in your posts that is not there, but it did appear to me to be a defensiveness of your state of life, and a need to prove a point (that private vows in the single life are a vocation), and I didn't want to cause you pain by disagreeing with you, if this is how you are feeling. If, as you say, this is not the case, and I am just projecting my sensitivities into the discussion, then that is all good and well, so I am happy to continue posting. As for offending me, I have absolutely no axe to grind about this topic, as I am neither passionately committed to the single life, nor religious life at this point in time - as I said, I am still discerning. I may have strong opinions about the topic, but these are not a passion (as with the religious habit) and I am trying to learn and to understand how the Church sees things and that is why I am seeking advice from clergy and church militants.

In fact, the only thing I am pretty confident about is that God is not calling me to the married state! As for your suggestion that I should have spiritual direction, yes, I do have a SD, and I have always encouraged this for others as well. I have been under SD for many years, and have not only had some of the most fantastic directors, but have been blessed to have had personal meetings with the Father General of the Carmelites and the Director of the IRL to discuss my vocation - not always "fun" meetings, but always beneficial, as well as having had Bishop Herman (from St Louis MO) as my confessor while living with Rosalind Moss, and the Archbishop of Singapore as my mentor while living there. I have been abundantly blessed with spiritual direction over the years, and have also had this wonderful phatmass phamily phorum of great advisors for the past three years (and we can't underestimate the wealth of knowledge right here on this phorum!). Right now, in addition to my SD, I have several priest friends who provide me with their wisdom and insight, and I am still in communication with almost every religious community I have ever spent time with, and the Prioresses are wonderful sources of knowledge and support.

I don’t know your situation (and don’t feel obligated to post it here please) but as you have been in private vows for 35 years, I am bit surprised that your SD would not have recommended religious life all those years ago since I don‘t think that the single life was even seen as a vocation back then. And today, there is always the option of being a consecrated hermit if one lives as you do, under a private rule, but as I say, I am not privy to all your reasons, and we each have our own “stories”, so to speak. And perhaps, for you, you do feel a “calling” to the single life and it could be that this is just something that I can’t understand (as I am hoping to end up in some “Church approved” state of life).

You do have every right to disagree with me, and I with you, of course. That is fine. That is why I wanted some feedback from others, and although I wasn't trying to tell you that you shouldn't post, perhaps that it how it came across, and I am sorry for that misunderstanding. I sometimes leap in to post a response before I have had time to carefully reflect and pray about it, and we all know that online communication is fraught with peril. I will try to be more careful how I phrase things in future. God does write straight with crooked lines, doesn't He?

[Aloysius]

I am wary of offering as a regular option to those discerning their vocation in life the possibility of making "private vows"... if there is such a call from God for people to make vows without the witness of the Church, it's an irregular call IMO. perhaps more people are called to consecrated virginity and the structures of the Church don't adequately provide for that right now with it being so rare. I think such private vows would be as irregular as being a hermit; I'm definitely not sitting here telling you that any such promise you made to God was wrong... but I am sitting here saying that considering it as a regular option for people as if it was "just another vocation" is indeed wrong.

we all certainly have a vocation to holiness, this is certain. when I say those who die single die without a vocation, I don't mean that they die without having been called by God to holiness and I don't mean that they did anything wrong. I am simply saying that they never answered a call from God to one of the states of life the Church offers as vocations... perhaps they never received such a call or perhaps they missed it, but they never had a "vocation" in the sense of the term used by the Church; of course they fulfilled the universal vocation to holiness, but they never did the natural vocation and got married and they never did the un-natural super-natural thing by fleeing the possibility of marriage for the sake of the kingdom.

but I said before that a vow makes something a vocation, and I'm certainly not questioning the life you have chosen for yourself, I would just strongly advise against anyone who's in the transitory state in life of singlehood to enshrine that as their vocation without making formal vows. a private vow to singlehood is not advisable IMO, because it means saying that, even though you've taken no social steps (and we are social beings) to "be a eunuch for the sake of the Kingdom" as Christ says in St. Matthew's Gospel, you're not open to God calling you to marriage or some type of consecration as a monk/nun/or consecrated virgin.

in the old days, it was common for one of the many children a Catholic family would have to stay single and take care of the aging parents. that was a laudable thing, of course... but I still think this distinction in the definition of "vocation" is important, and such a person who stayed single to take care of their parents was a person who was eligible for any vocation, who forewent following a vocation for another purpose.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 January 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1263196827' post='2034505']
I am wary of offering as a regular option to those discerning their vocation in life the possibility of making "private vows"... if there is such a call from God for people to make vows without the witness of the Church, it's an irregular call IMO. perhaps more people are called to consecrated virginity and the structures of the Church don't adequately provide for that right now with it being so rare. I think such private vows would be as irregular as being a hermit; I'm definitely not sitting here telling you that any such promise you made to God was wrong... but I am sitting here saying that considering it as a regular option for people as if it was "just another vocation" is indeed wrong.

we all certainly have a vocation to holiness, this is certain. when I say those who die single die without a vocation, I don't mean that they die without having been called by God to holiness and I don't mean that they did anything wrong. I am simply saying that they never answered a call from God to one of the states of life the Church offers as vocations... perhaps they never received such a call or perhaps they missed it, but they never had a "vocation" in the sense of the term used by the Church; of course they fulfilled the universal vocation to holiness, but they never did the natural vocation and got married and they never did the un-natural super-natural thing by fleeing the possibility of marriage for the sake of the kingdom.

but I said before that a vow makes something a vocation, and I'm certainly not questioning the life you have chosen for yourself, I would just strongly advise against anyone who's in the transitory state in life of singlehood to enshrine that as their vocation without making formal vows. a private vow to singlehood is not advisable IMO, because it means saying that, even though you've taken no social steps (and we are social beings) to "be a eunuch for the sake of the Kingdom" as Christ says in St. Matthew's Gospel, you're not open to God calling you to marriage or some type of consecration as a monk/nun/or consecrated virgin.

in the old days, it was common for one of the many children a Catholic family would have to stay single and take care of the aging parents. that was a laudable thing, of course... but I still think this distinction in the definition of "vocation" is important, and such a person who stayed single to take care of their parents was a person who was eligible for any vocation, who forewent following a vocation for another purpose.
[/quote]

You have such a clear way of stating things, thank you.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='nunsense' date='11 January 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1263196574' post='2034499']
Barb - Perhaps I am reading something of an attitude in your posts that is not there, but it did appear to me to be a defensiveness of your state of life, and a need to prove a point (that private vows in the single life are a vocation), and I didn't want to cause you pain by disagreeing with you, if this is how you are feeling. If, as you say, this is not the case, and I am just projecting my sensitivities into the discussion, then that is all good and well, so I am happy to continue posting. As for offending me, I have absolutely no axe to grind about this topic, as I am neither passionately committed to the single life, nor religious life at this point in time - as I said, I am still discerning. I may have strong opinions about the topic, but these are not a passion (as with the religious habit) and I am trying to learn and to understand how the Church sees things and that is why I am seeking advice from clergy and church militants.

In fact, the only thing I am pretty confident about is that God is not calling me to the married state! As for your suggestion that I should have spiritual direction, yes, I do have a SD, and I have always encouraged this for others as well. I have been under SD for many years, and have not only had some of the most fantastic directors, but have been blessed to have had personal meetings with the Father General of the Carmelites and the Director of the IRL to discuss my vocation - not always "fun" meetings, but always beneficial, as well as having had Bishop Herman (from St Louis MO) as my confessor while living with Rosalind Moss, and the Archbishop of Singapore as my mentor while living there. I have been abundantly blessed with spiritual direction over the years, and have also had this wonderful phatmass phamily phorum of great advisors for the past three years (and we can't underestimate the wealth of knowledge right here on this phorum!). Right now, in addition to my SD, I have several priest friends who provide me with their wisdom and insight, and I am still in communication with almost every religious community I have ever spent time with, and the Prioresses are wonderful sources of knowledge and support.

I don’t know your situation (and don’t feel obligated to post it here please) but as you have been in private vows for 35 years, I am bit surprised that your SD would not have recommended religious life all those years ago since I don‘t think that the single life was even seen as a vocation back then. And today, there is always the option of being a consecrated hermit if one lives as you do, under a private rule, but as I say, I am not privy to all your reasons, and we each have our own “stories”, so to speak. And perhaps, for you, you do feel a “calling” to the single life and it could be that this is just something that I can’t understand (as I am hoping to end up in some “Church approved” state of life).

You do have every right to disagree with me, and I with you, of course. That is fine. That is why I wanted some feedback from others, and although I wasn't trying to tell you that you shouldn't post, perhaps that it how it came across, and I am sorry for that misunderstanding. I sometimes leap in to post a response before I have had time to carefully reflect and pray about it, and we all know that online communication is fraught with peril. I will try to be more careful how I phrase things in future. God does write straight with crooked lines, doesn't He?
[/quote]

God bless, Nunsense.........all is well - no problems! My spiritual director/confessor of some 35 years ago was a priest theologian living and working at our Seminary then. Initially he did have hopes for me entering religious life and I had thoughts about it too - but as things unfolded he saw a potential different direction and private vows. By the time my annulment came thru and that took years, I had begun to live a specific way of life which he identified to me. I can only share what I have experienced in this instance. He directed me over quite a few years.

Barb
I am going to try and put something together tonight to post including references in Church documents.

Edited January 11, 2010 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Rather than post further, I have decided to post these links from my files for any interested and I do apologize if they should be accompanied by my own comments. Please note that probably all formatting is mine.
If you consider there is no vocation to the celibate or single state for the sake of The Kingdom, then were it me I would not consider it. If you think that there might be and might want to consider it - undertake and be guided by wise and sound spiritual advice.
[quote]
Catholic Catechism:


920 Without always professing the three evangelical counsels [u]publicly[/u], hermits "devote their life to the praise of God and salvation of the world through a stricter separation from the world, the silence of solitude and assiduous prayer and penance."460[/quote]


[quote]Quote:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p4.htm#930

Catholic Catechism:
932 In the Church, which is like the sacrament- the sign and instrument - of God's own life, the consecrated life is seen as a special sign of the mystery of redemption. To follow and imitate Christ more nearly and to manifest more clearly his self- emptying is to be more deeply present to one's contemporaries, in the heart of Christ. For those who are on this "narrower" path encourage their brethren by their example, and bear striking witness "that the world cannot be transfigured and offered to God without the spirit of the beatitudes."477
933 Whether their witness is public, as in the religious state, or less public,
Quote:
[quote]or even secret, [/quote]
Christ's coming remains for all those consecrated both the origin and rising sun of their life:
For the People of God has here no lasting city, . . . [and this state] reveals more clearly to all believers the heavenly goods which are already present in this age, witnessing to the new and eternal life which we have acquired through the redemptive work of Christ and preluding our future resurrection and the glory of the heavenly kingdom.478
Quote:[/quote]

[quote]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/jp2tb73.htm

The Vocation to Continence in This Earthly LifePope John Paul II
GENERAL AUDIENCE OF WEDNESDAY, 17 MARCH


This term concerns the physical defects which render procreation in marriage impossible. These defects explain the first two categories, when Jesus spoke of both congenital defects: "eunuchs who have been so from birth" (Mt 19:11), and of acquired defects caused by human intervention: "There are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men" (Mt 19:12). In both cases it is a state of compulsion, and therefore not voluntary.
Quote:
If Christ in his comparison then spoke of those "who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven" (Mt 19:12), as of a third category, undoubtedly he made this distinction to indicate still further its voluntary and supernatural character. It is voluntary, because those pertaining to this category "have made themselves eunuchs," and it is supernatural, because they have done so "for the kingdom of heaven." [/quote]
[quote]


http://www.presentationministries.com/brochures/Single.asp
Quote:

RENEWING THE CHURCH
AND
THE VOCATION TO THE SINGLE LIFE



Nihil obstat: Reverend Robert L. Hagedorn, September 21, 1998
Imprimatur: †Most Reverend Carl K. Moeddel, Vicar General and Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, September 23, 1998.
The Nihil obstat and Imprimatur are a declaration that a book or pamphlet is considered to be free from doctrinal or moral error. It is not implied that those who have granted the Nihil obstat and Imprimatur agree with the contents, opinions, or statements expressed.[/quote]


[quote]“A vocation to the single life” Source: CatholicExchange
http://www.catholicexchange.com/2005/11/19/92623/[/quote]

Edited January 11, 2010 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='07 January 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1262791472' post='2030851']
Does anyone here think they have (or currently living out) a vocation to the single life? Maybe share your plans and experience aswell as the joys and troubles that come with any vocation. Is loneliness a problem? What do you do with your time? Et cetera..
[/quote]
Edit: I should underscore that I am living the celibate state or the single life under private vows to the evangelical counsels for life. I have always sought what I consider to be wise and sound spiritual advice and discerning all along my journey.
. Yes, at times the life can get humanly lonely (I live alone) but never unbearable – trying but not unbearable. It needs to be stated too that each person in private vows may define their actual lifestyle differently while it will have similar features I should think. Private vow or vows should, in my opinion, only ever be undertaken with sound and wise spritual advice and discernment and as it has been pointed out by other posters private vows do not per se exclude one discerning a call to religious life or the priesthood. Not at all. In my case unless The Lord calls me elsewhere I am bound by private vows to this way of life and to date I am aware of no such call elsewhere. My vows are not in Church juridical form while they remain vows to God and now for life - after seeking direction and advice, discernment. Could God call me elsewhere, yes He could.
For myself personall as to what I do all day. I am a student this year three days weekly this year. At the moment, I am on school holidays meaning I do have some more time. This just could lead me in another direction, depends at 64yrs how much time The Lord gives me and His Will for my life. I go back to college early February. I do craft and this will be donated to Charity for sale as a donation. I have a prayer schedule. I have people that I support in one way or another. I trained years ago as a counsellor and this training speaks to that aspect of my lifestyle often. I am maintaining contact with people from my previous address and before I go back to college will be visiting. I will be taking in ironing one day weekly this year to keep a work of Mercy going financially. And of course, since I live alone, all housework etc. and gardening are my problem. Other than this, The Lord defines my days and what may come into my day, which I strive to address and hopefully in the spirit of The Gospel. Daily I am reminded that it is in the spirit of The Gospel is also to repent from the heart and begin again. I am always at the start line! It is rather stunning at times just what can come into my day one way or another. Sometimes it is just some passing matter, sometimes it asks a much longer commitment. My particular way of life does ask – and is marked by - trust and confidence in The Lord always and also to define the days and I can’t think of a single day that has passed without some things having to be left until tomorrow. That is, my days are full. At one point some years ago at my previous address, it was nothing for me to have about 15, perhaps, or more teenagers at my place – sometimes some needing a place to sleep. St. Vinnies kindly donated mattresses to me. They are now all adults and also I have shifted from the area to another residence by order of the Housing Authority who provide me with a rental residence. They want to demolish my residence of 30 years, or my previous residence, and build new housing and this is slowly happening to all residents in my previous street. All residents will be eventually re located and their homes demolished to make way for new housing. The street I lived in is marked for demolition and new housing since all existing housing is probably 50years or more old. I call my way of life “Bethany” which is also the name of wherever I may be residing – and this has particular meaning for me.
I posted my prayer schedule into another thread here on Phatmass connected with prayer times. I think I have been quite influenced by the writings of St. Therese of Lisieux and also Jean Paul de Caussade and “Abandonment to Divine Providence” and the monastic Order I entered in my forties was ideally particularly marked by abandonment.

I am on a disability pension and this provides some income, along with the fact that the government pays me to go to college. Although when this way of life began to unfold 35 years ago, although quick maths seems to indicate it may have been more like 30 years ago – somewhere around 30 years for sure when I was 34yrs old and my marriage collapsed. I am now 64yrs. 35 years marks a different milestone in my life although my priest theologian was then my director. I am not good with years, too much has happened over them. I was whenever all this began some 30 years or so ago in the workforce (private secretary) and hence the way of life had a different expression still relying on trust and confidence in The Lord. I support a couple of charities financially. I sold my vehicle years ago because it was too expensive to run a car. I bus it everywhere.
Since I have only recently shifted here, the way I will live life is still really in the unfolding process and it is my experience that sooner or later it will stabilize more or less into some form. Sometimes I need to be tolerant of disorganization and live with it as patiently as I can muster until things organize themselves – and sooner or later they do. The Lord provides.
After 35 or 30 years, whatever, I can see the various loose strands of my life winding into the one strand.

Barb

Edited January 11, 2010 by BarbaraTherese

[organwerke]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 January 2010 - 02:58 AM' timestamp='1263171488' post='2034209']
Barb,

I would indeed like to see a quote from LG that mentions unconsecrated single life as a vocation; Cappie's post says there is no such thing in the Church's perspective and I'm inclined to agree with him there.

a vocation to celibacy is only a vocation when vows are taken... remember, monks and nuns are still considered "laity" unless they are ordained.

In the Church's eyes, one who was refused an annulment is still married. They would live out a single state in life if there were serious reasons for them to remain separated from their spouse, especially in cases of abuse or what have you, or if their spouse simply refused to have them anymore.

The Church isn't forcing ppl to either marry or become priests/nuns; it is simply saying that a vocation is when one marries, becomes a priest, or takes vows. when one doesn't do any of those things, one is not yet living their vocation. It's not crazy to suppose that some people die without living out a vocation... some people might die as a child or die before they met the right person, or someone might not find the right person until they're 80 years old, or might never find someone at all (I think someone on this thread mentioned this: the dating pool has indeed been poisoned in modern times)... the point is, i would say, that one who lives a single (vocationless) life must not close themselves off to being called to a vocation. you can't say "no, I've already discerned that I was called to the single life". being an unconsecrated single person, one who has not taken formal vows of celibacy, means being eligible for marriage, religious life, or for males the priesthood.

see, when one has a vocation, one basically shuts off all other possibilities (except in the dual vocation of an Eastern married man who becomes a priest)... one cannot call singlehood a vocation because one cannot shut off the possibilities unless one takes formal vows to do so. without taking formal vows recognized by the Church, you are supposed to be open to God's call, which is why you're not (yet, or maybe ever) living a "vocation" in the proper sense of the word.

a widow or widower has lived out a vocation which has been completed, and is now eligible to live out another vocation if God calls him... I think at least in medieval practice widows might end up in convents, not sure about modern practice. but without vows to do so, I don't think a widow/widower should say "God has called me to live celibacy for the rest of my life"
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I don't agree with you Aloysius and with what you say in this thread.
The first thing I thought reading your post is from a personal experience.
I know quite well Opus Dei, which is an institution mainly for lay people, but there are also ordained priests.
I'm not a member, but I know many, and for example, in Opus Dei there is a celibacy vocation but people who feel called to this don't make vows, because Opus Dei isn't a religious Order.
Nevertheless, this is a vocation, and I think that there are other institutions that have a similar one.
Then, for example, I know many persons who feel called to a married life but they don't find the right person.
I think that even if they don't get married, they Have a vocation for married life.
Or, another example, I have some friends who chose to live as single personss, without making vows or belonging to any lay institution.
I don't think that we can have a vocation only when there is a celebrated marriage or public vows in a religious order.
Moreover, a vocation can evolve during the life (for example a person who thought to get marry and then feel called to religious life; or a person who thought to remain single and then gets married).
I simply think that we can speak of a vocation to the single life when persons FREELY choose to live a single life as their personal way toward holiness.

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[quote name='organwerke' date='11 January 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1263212952' post='2034602']

I'm not a member, but I know many, and for example, in Opus Dei there is a celibacy vocation but people who feel called to this don't make vows, because Opus Dei isn't a religious Order.
Nevertheless, this is a vocation, and I think that there are other institutions that have a similar one.


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I understand what you are saying here organwerke, and Opus Dei is a good example of an ordinary Catholic lay vocation, but it does have pretty formal structures in place for members in place of vows - they call it "commitment" and even to join requires a formal written request....

[i]The request is made in writing and needs to have been accepted by the authorities of the Prelature, and admission is granted after a minimum of six months. After an additional period of at least one year, the person can be temporarily incorporated into the Prelature through a formal declaration of a contractual nature, which is renewable annually. In accordance with canon law, no one may be juridically incorporated into the Prelature who has not reached 18 years of age. After a minimum of five more years, the incorporation can become definitive (that is, at a minimum age of 23).

Incorporation into Opus Dei means, on the part of the Prelature, the commitment to provide the person with ongoing formation in the Catholic faith and in the spirit of Opus Dei, as well as the necessary pastoral care from the priests of the Prelature. On the part of the person to be incorporated, it means the commitment to remain under the jurisdiction of the Prelate in all that concerns the aim of the Prelature and to respect the norms by which it is governed. The bond with the Prelature ceases at the end of the term of the contract with the Prelature, or earlier, if the person so requests, by agreement with the authorities of the Prelature. Departure from the Prelature brings about the cessation of mutual rights and duties. [/i]

I think this sounds a little different than a person who is simply living in a single state and makes private vows but I would be interested to hear more views on this. Thank you for for a thoughtful post.