Help Debating An Atheist

[Resurrexi]

He said "By the way, if he does nothing to prevent evil that would be considered malevolent. It's like if you knew that there would be a shooting and did nothing to stop it, that is malevolent."

How should I respond?

[tojo]

We would use our free will to try to stop it/ God would be using His absolute power and therefore co-opting the shooter's free will. Not the same thing.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='05 January 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1262752534' post='2030644']
He said "By the way, if he does nothing to prevent evil that would be considered malevolent. It's like if you knew that there would be a shooting and did nothing to stop it, that is malevolent."

How should I respond?
[/quote]
Ask him if he had a child would he attempt to control his life like a dictator, or would he lovingly instruct him in what is right and wrong and then allow him to make his own choices.
If God in his almighty power decided to run our lives, to dictate our every move, we would have no choice but to comply, would we ever love him or feel that he loves us in return?

You could explain to him to be malevolant God would actually have to produce the harm or wish to see the harm!

ed

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

The bottom line is that you can't choose good if you can't choose evil. The idea of a free world without the choice of evil is an impossibility. Goodness and love have their basis in freedom, and cannot be so in a determined world.

[CatherineM]

Quote the Council of Trent.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='05 January 2010 - 08:35 PM' timestamp='1262752534' post='2030644']
He said "By the way, if he does nothing to prevent evil that would be considered malevolent. It's like if you knew that there would be a shooting and did nothing to stop it, that is malevolent."

How should I respond?
[/quote]


"all that evil needs to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing."

[Hassan]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='05 January 2010 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1262753222' post='2030650']
Ask him if he had a child would he attempt to control his life like a dictator, or would he lovingly instruct him in what is right and wrong and then allow him to make his own choices.
If God in his almighty power decided to run our lives, to dictate our every move, we would have no choice but to comply, would we ever love him or feel that he loves us in return?

You could explain to him to be malevolant God would actually have to produce the harm or wish to see the harm!

ed
[/quote]


If my child started raping another child and I had the power to do something I'd stop him.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Hassan' date='06 January 2010 - 02:36 AM' timestamp='1262763411' post='2030715']
If my child started raping another child and I had the power to do something I'd stop him.
[/quote]

Dude, please don't turn this thread into an atheist debate.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='06 January 2010 - 02:40 AM' timestamp='1262763629' post='2030718']
Dude, please don't turn this thread into an atheist debate.
[/quote]


The title of the thread is "Help Debating an Atheist". If you give that response, that's the response you're probably going to get.

[Happy_Catholic]

I use this explanation a bit with the atheists I encounter:

Say Mr. Bob the Atheist is walking down the street when suddenly a huge volcano rips up out of the earth, throwing its toys and lava starts spewing down the road. Mr. Bob the Atheist stands there, messing his pants and frozen with fear, when all of a sudden, God's giant, well pedicured foot stamps down in front of the lava re-directing it into a river or ocean or some other unpopulated area.

Well, what is Mr. Bob the Atheist to do? Is he going to say "sorry, God I dont' beleive in you, I need tangible proof" when the Almighty is standing there in all His perfect hygiene-y glory? No, only a complete idiot would do that. Mr. Bob the Atheist will forget all his learned secular ideals and fall to his knees squeaking with gratitude.

But what has God just done? He has taken Bob's free will, He has taken from Bob the ability and right to choose God freely. He has voided the need for faith.

The difference between the rapist and the murderer and whatever else, is that they have the ability to change their mind before they commit the act. If God were to cease the act while it is taking place, voids the faith of all those involved.

What would be worse for the atheist? A world void of choice, or a world where everyone knows God exists and nothing bad ever happens?

And besides, human society has made it pretty clear to God that He's gotta MHOB.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Hassan' date='06 January 2010 - 02:45 AM' timestamp='1262763911' post='2030722']
The title of the thread is "Help Debating an Atheist". If you give that response, that's the response you're probably going to get.
[/quote]

But the thread isn't supposed to be a debate. If I'd wanted this to be a debate, I would have created this thread in the Debate Table.

[Happy_Catholic]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='06 January 2010 - 02:49 AM' timestamp='1262764190' post='2030730']
But the thread isn't supposed to be a debate. If I'd wanted this to be a debate, I would have created this thread in the Debate Table.
[/quote]

Yeah, its kind of like a discussion involving the differing stratergies open to us in regards to conversing with those who refuse to acknowledge or believe there is no evidence to acknowledge the existence of a deity or deities.

Think of it as "strategic planning management".

[Varg]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='05 January 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1262752534' post='2030644']
He said "By the way, if he does nothing to prevent evil that would be considered malevolent. It's like if you knew that there would be a shooting and did nothing to stop it, that is malevolent."

How should I respond?
[/quote]
Give up and run away.

[Varg]

[quote name='Happy_Catholic' date='06 January 2010 - 02:46 AM' timestamp='1262763975' post='2030724']
I use this explanation a bit with the atheists I encounter:

Say Mr. Bob the Atheist is walking down the street when suddenly a huge volcano rips up out of the earth, throwing its toys and lava starts spewing down the road. Mr. Bob the Atheist stands there, messing his pants and frozen with fear, when all of a sudden, God's giant, well pedicured foot stamps down in front of the lava re-directing it into a river or ocean or some other unpopulated area.

Well, what is Mr. Bob the Atheist to do? Is he going to say "sorry, God I dont' beleive in you, I need tangible proof" when the Almighty is standing there in all His perfect hygiene-y glory? No, only a complete idiot would do that. Mr. Bob the Atheist will forget all his learned secular ideals and fall to his knees squeaking with gratitude.

But what has God just done? He has taken Bob's free will, He has taken from Bob the ability and right to choose God freely. He has voided the need for faith.

The difference between the rapist and the murderer and whatever else, is that they have the ability to change their mind before they commit the act. If God were to cease the act while it is taking place, voids the faith of all those involved.

What would be worse for the atheist? A world void of choice, or a world where everyone knows God exists and nothing bad ever happens?

And besides, human society has made it pretty clear to God that He's gotta MHOB.
[/quote]
But surely god could just not put the volcano there in the first place?

[Varg]

[quote name='thedude' date='06 January 2010 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1262757329' post='2030690']
The bottom line is that you can't choose good if you can't choose evil. The idea of a free world without the choice of evil is an impossibility. Goodness and love have their basis in freedom, and cannot be so in a determined world.
[/quote]
Perhaps. But people generally don't "choose" to get cancer, for example.