Ghosts, Not The Holy Spirit

[King's Rook's Pawn]

It's annoying but I don't think most people take it seriously. As for the ones that do, it's a symptom of their lack of faith rather than the root problem. If the vessel is empty, something will come along fill it up.

I'm glad that the Church has a strong tradition of mystics, such as Padre Pio. Such things as charism, miracles, sacramentals, and, of course, most importantly the sacraments help us get in touch with transcendent reality, which I think is really what occult dabblers are desiring.

[Varg]

[quote name='Gregorius' date='04 January 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1262640317' post='2029611']
If the Romans (real group of people) couldn't keep Him dead, and the Sanhedrin (real legal body at the time) couldn't keep Him dead, there's no way some one-eyed mead-head (cool legend but not much more) could smash Him.
[/quote]
You can declare someone legally dead if they're been missing seven years...Christ's been gone for thousands. I think that's good enough, don't you?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Varg' date='04 January 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1262644655' post='2029660']
You can declare someone legally dead if they're been missing seven years...Christ's been gone for thousands. I think that's good enough, don't you?
[/quote]

You speak as if you believe in His existence.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='04 January 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1262645050' post='2029663']
You speak as if you believe in His existence.
[/quote]
It would be pretty bizarre to hang around a Catholic forum if one didn't believe in His existence, wouldn't it?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='04 January 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1262645686' post='2029667']
It would be pretty bizarre to hang around a Catholic forum if one didn't believe in His existence, wouldn't it?
[/quote]

Werd.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Varg' date='05 January 2010 - 09:37 AM' timestamp='1262644655' post='2029660']
You can declare someone legally dead if they're been missing seven years...Christ's been gone for thousands. I think that's good enough, don't you?
[/quote]

Gone? Gone? Christ hasn't "gone" anywhere, Varg. If you believe this, then no wonder you aren't a Christian. Before I became a Christian, I also thought he was "dead". When I mentioned this to a priest (long after my conversion), he said "Hadn't you ever heard of the Resurrection?" The funny thing is, that I had, but I thought that it meant He rose from the dead and then ascended into heaven, so we were all alone again. It really meant nothing to me because I hadn't exerienced Christ's presence in my life and I thought all Christians were deluded.

I had even spent time looking into Eastern religions, searching for a "living master" because I couldn't believe that a loving God would leave us all alone after Jesus had died. I guess I hadn't read that part in the Bible where Jesus says that He would not leave us orphans and that He would send the Holy Spirit! Or that He and His Father would come and live with us in our hearts.

It's funny how sometimes something just "clicks" for you, and then you understand. I call that grace. Jesus certainly isn't "gone" for me any more. I will pray that one day, through the grace of God, it "clicks" for you as well. He just isn't "gone".

[Old_Joe]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='04 January 2010 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1262624199' post='2029497']
If they are human, the Catechism clearly teaches that souls are judged immediately upon physical death. The only explanation I've seen for these spirits being human that jives with the Catechism is that these could be souls who are in Purgatory who are appealing for prayers. If this is the case, then they are members of our Church who are suffering and in need of prayer. In my opinion, it would be acceptable for Catholics who believe this and to seek out souls in this state in order to pray for them. But for a Catholic to believe they're human souls and to approach paranormal or preternatural sightings as entertaining strikes me as being very very wrong.
[/quote]

This might be a little off topic. Say these hauntings are the work of spirits of the deceased, would that mean that they're in purgatory on earth because they refuse to let go of a person, place, or thing or that they haven't entered purgatory because of their attachment?

[Ash Wednesday]

I used to watch a lot of ghost shows because they piqued my curiousity. What's ironic is that the more I watched these shows, the more skeptical I became. Not about life after death, but the things people believe to be hauntings. Now I find most of these shows to be pretty flaky. I do believe the existence of some paranormal things are certainly possible, I have encountered some weird "haunt" related things in my lifetime (the difference being I did not seek these experiences out), but I think people get too carried away with it. I encountered a website about "EVPs" a while back, it was ran by a woman who had lost her son tragically and she had all these "recordings" she believed were her son, when these garbled sounds could have been anything. Really it struck me as a poor woman trying to cope with losing her son and going about it the wrong way and wanting some kind of comfort so badly. Many people's insistence on proof smacks of overactive imagination and appealing too much to emotion ("I really felt their presence...and I took a picture and this [s]dust speck[/s] [s]bug[/s] orb showed up!")

I think one of the reasons why people are fascinated by these things is because they yearn and hunger for proof of life after death. People are always going to be curious about death, and life after death. That's normal. The question is how best to approach the curiosity, especially as a Catholic.

In my case when I think of these "deathly, ghostly" things, I just remember that we need to pray for the dead, and that death is an inevitable thing that everyone must prepare for. I find the subject of death very interesting but I also think one should be careful not to take an excessive and morbid preoccupation with it, as that can be a sign of possible depression or spiritual oppression. In addition to not getting into the occult thing, though for Church militant that should be kind of a no-brainer.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Ash Wednesday

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Old_Joe' date='04 January 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1262653152' post='2029760']
This might be a little off topic. Say these hauntings are the work of spirits of the deceased, would that mean that they're in purgatory on earth because they refuse to let go of a person, place, or thing or that they haven't entered purgatory because of their attachment?
[/quote]

Apparently, Padre Pio told of a soul that he saw after he heard something fall over on the altar. The soul was that of a cleric who had apparently been negligent in his duties, and was required to "clean the altar" during his purification in purgatory.

~Sternhauser

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='04 January 2010 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1262659187' post='2029878']
Apparently, Padre Pio told of a soul that he saw after he heard something fall over on the altar. The soul was that of a cleric who had apparently been negligent in his duties, and was required to "clean the altar" during his purification in purgatory.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Sterhauser, I never heard that one, not saying its untrue but you do realize that saints such as Padre Pio are given supernatural powers by Christ and we are not, probably as we are not strong enough spiritually to "wrestle" with demons as Padre Pio was to endure during his life.
Someone posted above that he wondered if some ghosts are souls who would not let go of something on earth, a fallacy that is rampant in these shows I complain about. Any soul who would not accept his judgement is evil, they do not get to purgatory, which is a guarantee of eventually seeing heaven, they are condemned. If they would return from condemnation they would be like the evil spirits Christ cast out, there is no gray area in between where we choose our fate.

ed

[Rosedelima]

I've also noticed the prevalence of all these ghost-related shows. The one on Animal Planet called "The Haunted" is interesting from the perspective that I do believe animals can sense things of a paranormal nature usually before people. I have noticed this in my own cat. Thankfully, it's generally only been him staring at something/upward toward a wall or something where there isn't anything (except maybe being near a friend artist's rendition of the crucifixion). I take that as a good sign. But, I think the obsession has gone overboard, certainly and is indeed dangerous. I have seen episodes (mostly one day of watching one after another in some crazy marathon) where the state's local paranormal investigators are called in and then some lame "ritual cleansing" is performed by putting salt around the house to the one where a Catholic priest is involved. They never called him a priest trained specifically in exorcism, i.e., an exorcist, which is what I thought priests had to be in order to perform this sort of thing. I know anyone well, particularly Catholics) can pray and demand in Christ's name that some evil force be gone, but I think just anyone doing it as being like when that happens in the New Testament and the demons say (to whom, I forget), "Jesus we know, Paul we've heard of . . . but who are you?" The priest is also accompanied by a psychic and othernon-believers (who at the beginning either miraculously know the rosary or are taught to recite it in order to revive an oppressed dog). The goal on this adventure is to corner the demon, but the whole group ordeal comes across asif the priest is more a part of a side show than the only one with authority toactually exorcise the demon.

To wit, I think the prevalence successfully trivializes evil, attempts to harness it, make it manageable, innocuous, and worse, makes the occult and affiliation with it into entertainment. One episode that illustrated the effect on teens resulted in a family friend's death who stayed at the "haunted" home, a home oppressed by a demon that had followed the teens home from their dabbling in the occult and visiting haunted houses. It was just a tragedy that did have the final result of turning them from the occult, but a result (the friend's death) was never really considered to be at all something they may have invited with their dabbling with demons. Hardly worth being promoted as entertainment.

[Happy_Catholic]

[quote name='Varg' date='04 January 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1262635445' post='2029560']
Christ is smashed by the power of Odin.
[/quote]

Odin's a git. He can't control his kids. And what kind of god only has one eye? All that Jesus' smashing power, you'd think he could re-grow the thing.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Happy_Catholic' date='05 January 2010 - 12:34 AM' timestamp='1262669695' post='2030039']
Odin's a git. He can't control his kids. And what kind of god only has one eye? All that Jesus' smashing power, you'd think he could re-grow the thing.
[/quote]

Odin was the clown thrown out of Asgard by the other gods, hardly makes him seem tough or all powerful. If I wanted a fantasy god I would choose the Incredible Hulk, heck even the Mighty Thor could not throw him out of Asgard! I have lost it, all sense of reality has diminished and I have slipped back into the comic book days of youth, well not really I even knew back then the difference in entertainment fantasy and truth.

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' date='04 January 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1262671089' post='2030053']
Odin was the clown thrown out of Asgard by the other gods, hardly makes him seem tough or all powerful. If I wanted a fantasy god I would choose the Incredible Hulk, heck even the Mighty Thor could not throw him out of Asgard! I have lost it, all sense of reality has diminished and I have slipped back into the comic book days of youth, well not really I even knew back then the difference in entertainment fantasy and truth.

ed
[/quote]
I would pick Jamie Hyneman.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='05 January 2010 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1262671140' post='2030054']
I would pick Jamie Hyneman.
[/quote]

Nihil Obstat, he looks to much like the Monopoly Man to be a diety.

ed