Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1262403774' post='2028344'] You're getting warmer. Now, is execution, which the Church has traditionally permitted, an act of direct and intentional killing? Why or why not? ~Sternhauser [/quote] Man you are so heading down the wrong path. [quote][font="Times"][size="3"]The Holy See has consistently sought theabolition of the death penalty and his Holiness Pope John Paul II haspersonally and indiscriminately appealed on numerous occasions in orderthat such sentences should be commuted to a lesser punishment, whichmay offer time and incentive for the reform of the guilty, hope to theinnocent and safeguard the well-being of civil society itself and ofthose individuals who through no choice of theirs have become deeplyinvolved in the fate of those condemmed to death.[/size][/font][/quote] [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_20010621_death-penalty_en.html"]DECLARATION OF THE HOLY SEE TO THE FIRST WORLD CONGRESS ON THE DEATH PENALTY[/url] You want to keep going? You're just painting yourself in a corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I am just disturbed by the fact that Stern would kill an abortionist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 I was going to jump in on another point. But let's let Stern show the other phorum members the error of his ways. BTW Stern. If and when an execution can be permissable according to the Church (now or 100 years ago) Who gets the permission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 10:48 PM' timestamp='1262404098' post='2028352'] Man you are so heading down the wrong path. [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/secretariat_state/documents/rc_seg-st_doc_20010621_death-penalty_en.html"]DECLARATION OF THE HOLY SEE TO THE FIRST WORLD CONGRESS ON THE DEATH PENALTY[/url] You want to keep going? You're just painting yourself in a corner [/quote] Are you suggesting that the Church Fathers, the Popes, the Bishops, the whole Magisterium of the Catholic Church has been wrong about the intrinsic nature of the death penalty for the past 2000 years? ~Sternhauser Edited January 2, 2010 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='01 January 2010 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1262404148' post='2028353'] I am just disturbed by the fact that Stern would kill an abortionist. [/quote] Very clever. I'm sure Sternhouser, being so dimwitted and slow, will never see through that profoundly nontransparent and just ultra-sneaky ploy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1262404268' post='2028357'] Are you suggesting that the Church Fathers, the Popes, the Bishops, the whole Magisterium of the Catholic Church has been wrong about the intrinsic nature of the death penalty for the past 2000 years? ~Sternhauser [/quote] I'm sorry, do you think I'm the author of that Vatican document? Secondly, the document does nothing to contradict Church history. If you read it you would know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Hassan' date='01 January 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1262404306' post='2028359'] Very clever. I'm sure Sternhouser, being so dimwitted and slow, will never see through that profoundly nontransparent and just ultra-sneaky ploy. [/quote] I am ONLY responding to you because I need to convey how disgusted I am by the way you talk to me. STOP replying to my posts, you are on IGNORE. I want you to leave me ALONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote]BTW Stern. If and when an execution can be permissable according to the Church (now or 100 years ago) Who gets the permission? [/quote] Those with the authority to do so. ~Sternhauser Edited January 2, 2010 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1262404524' post='2028364'] [/quote] Those with the authority to do so. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Which would be... (it begins with an s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1262404405' post='2028361'] I'm sorry, do you think I'm the author of that Vatican document? Secondly, the document does nothing to contradict Church history. If you read it you would know that. [/quote] Jaim.e, I did not say that the document contradicts Church history or Church teaching on the intrinsic morality of the death penalty. I asked if [i]you[/i] were, trying to use that document to support your position. ~Sternhauser Edited January 2, 2010 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1262404569' post='2028365'] Those with the authority to do so. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Jaim.e wrote: [quote]Which would be... (it begins with an s) [/quote] Not necessarily, Jaim.e, not necessarily. And you will never be able to find anything to definitively contradict that claim. ~Sternhauser Edited January 2, 2010 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='01 January 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1262404466' post='2028363'] I am ONLY responding to you because I need to convey how disgusted I am by the way you talk to me. STOP replying to my posts, you are on IGNORE. I want you to leave me ALONE. [/quote] And it is because you don't seriously put someone on ignore, but seem to only like to make grand public announcements that you are ignoring someone on ignore, that I do not take your 'ignores' seriously. I am actually interested in seeing Jamie and Stern discuss this issue, and your transparent attempts to trip Stern up and provoke are not really conducive to that conversation. They seem likely to cause the discussion to go off track or make Stern just quit out of frustration. Edited January 2, 2010 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1262404649' post='2028366'] Jaim.e, I did not say that the document contradicts Church history or Church teaching on the intrinsic morality of the death penalty. I asked if [i]you[/i] were, trying to use that document to support your position. ~Sternhauser [/quote] But originally you said this [quote name='Sternhauser' date='01 January 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1262403774' post='2028344'] You're getting warmer. But St. Thomas still seems to disagree with the Catechism, in any case. Which is correct? Now: is execution, which the Church has traditionally permitted, an act of direct and intentional killing? Why or why not? ~Sternhauser [/quote] The Church taught that. Now it teaches that it is unnecessary as the document I provided states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='hot stuff' date='01 January 2010 - 11:02 PM' timestamp='1262404942' post='2028370'] But originally you said this The Church taught that. Now it teaches that it is unnecessary as the document I provided states. [/quote] That document proposes a doctrine of the Church? ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 [quote name='Hassan' date='01 January 2010 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1262404809' post='2028369'] And it is because you don't seriously put someone on ignore, but seem to only like to make grand public announcements that you are ignoring someone on ignore, that I do not take your 'ignores' seriously. I am actually interested in seeing Jamie and Stern discuss this issue, and your transparent attempts to trip Stern up and provoke are not really conducive to that conversation. They seem likely to cause the discussion to go off track or make Stern just quit out of frustration. [/quote] You are the ONLY person I have on ignore. Since I cannot e-mail you a notification I post it on the forum. If someone put me on ignore I would want to know, after all I would hate to waste my time replying to someone who is not going to respond. The only reason why I am responding to you now is because I am literally appalled by the way you treat me. You just need to stop, okay? Just STOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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