Here We Go Again, Some Jewish Groups Angry With Pope

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='dominicansoul' date='22 December 2009 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1261524290' post='2024731']
Wouldn't it be awesome if the rabbi was converted through the intercession of Pope Pius XII?! I would love to see that meeting in Heaven...
[/quote]
It would indeed

[OraProMe]

I don't get this. What makes Jewish groups think they have a say in the internal matters of the Church or who Catholics regard as a saint or not? I'm sure they realize that the man (ultimately Benedict) making the decisions about his beatification have access to the Vatican archive. I thought that he hid Jews in Castel Gandolfo anyway? And I swear that I had a book when I was younger full of photos of Jews that the priests dressed up as altar boys to save them from the Nazis.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='23 December 2009 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1261574389' post='2024957']
I don't get this. What makes Jewish groups think they have a say in the internal matters of the Church or who Catholics regard as a saint or not? I'm sure they realize that the man (ultimately Benedict) making the decisions about his beatification have access to the Vatican archive.
[/quote]
Yeah, I don't understand it, either.

[JimR-OCDS]

A good book

[color="#333333"]"The Myth Of Hitler's Pope: How Pope Pius Xii Rescued Jews from the Nazis," by Rabbi David G. Dalin, [/color] came out in response to Cromwell's fraudulent work, "Hitler's Pope."

Rabbi Dalin did a great job, exposing Cromwells fraudulent material.

Here's a piece from the website; [url="http://www.hprweb.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107:the-myth-of-hitlers-pope-how-pope-pius-xii-rescued-jews-from-the-nazis-by-rabbi-david-g-dalin&catid=38:c-d&Itemid=55"]http://www.hprweb.co...8:c-d&Itemid=55[/url]


[quote]
As for the "evidence" that Pius XII did nothing to help Jews, it amounts to a handful of frail accusations which crumple under Dalin's scrutiny. The most publicized anti-Pius study in recent years is John Cornwell's Hitler's Pope (1999). Yet it has been so debunked that Cornwell has retracted most of his allegations. Even so, it is clear that the cultural climate—which Dalin sees as a "culture war" over the memory of Pius XII—consistently steers most people clear of the facts.
Of the many slanders contested by The Myth of Hitler's Pope, the most persistent is the claim that Pius XII sat by during the 1943 round up of Roman Jews—"outside his very windows," as one writer put it. However, critics are usually too wrapped up in vague anti-Catholic polemics to concern themselves with eyewitness testimony. Dalin cites accounts of Jewish survivors who have nothing put praise for the pontiff's efforts, which included sheltering 3,000 Jews in his summer residence at Castel Gondolfo under the very noses of Hitler's SS.
In countering these and other charges, Dalin largely draws on existing scholarship (which he generously acknowledges). However, he achieves his purpose not through an exhaustive study, but by stressing a few outstanding points which will win the reader's attention and sympathy. Dalin has done some important legwork as well. He sheds light on hitherto overlooked aspects of Eugenio Pacelli's early career and friendship with Jews, especially during his time as Papal Nuncio in Bavaria, during and after the First World War.
[/quote]

Jim

Edited December 23, 2009 by JimR-OCDS

[Skinzo]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='23 December 2009 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1261585404' post='2025019']
A good book

[color="#333333"]"The Myth Of Hitler's Pope: How Pope Pius Xii Rescued Jews from the Nazis," by Rabbi David G. Dalin, [/color] came out in response to Cromwell's fraudulent work, "Hitler's Pope."

Rabbi Dalin did a great job, exposing Cromwells fraudulent material.

Here's a piece from the website; [url="http://www.hprweb.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107:the-myth-of-hitlers-pope-how-pope-pius-xii-rescued-jews-from-the-nazis-by-rabbi-david-g-dalin&catid=38:c-d&Itemid=55"]http://www.hprweb.co...8:c-d&Itemid=55[/url]




Jim
[/quote]

I think the author you are referring to is "Cornwell" not Cromwell.


S.

[Nihil Obstat]

Every time I see this thread I think "Here I go again on my own...... going down the only road I've ever known.........."
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3MXiTeH_Pg[/media]

[cappie]

NOTE CONCERNING DECREE ON THE HEROIC VIRTUES OF PIUS XII



VATICAN CITY, 23 DEC 2009 (VIS) - Holy See Press Office Director Fr. Federico Lombardi S.J. today issued the following note concerning the signing of the recent decree on the heroic virtues of Servant of God Pope Pius XII.



"The Pope's signing of the decree 'on the heroic virtues' of Pius XII has elicited a certain number of reactions in the Jewish world; perhaps because the meaning of such a signature is clear in the area of the Catholic Church and of specialists in the field, but may merit certain explanation for the larger public, in particular the Jewish public who are understandably very sensitive to all things concerning the historical period of World War II and the Holocaust.



"When the Pope signs a decree 'on the heroic virtues' of a Servant of God - i.e., of a person for whom a cause for beatification has been introduced - he confirms the positive evaluation already voted by the Congregation for the Causes of Saints. ... Naturally, such evaluation takes account of the circumstances in which the person lived, and hence it is necessary to examine the question from a historical standpoint, but the evaluation essentially concerns the witness of Christian life that the person showed (his intense relationship with God and continuous search for evangelical perfection) ... and not the historical impact of all his operative decisions".



"At the beatification of Pope John XXIII and of Pope Pius IX, John Paul II said: 'holiness lives in history and no saint has escaped the limits and conditioning which are part of our human nature. In beatifying one of her sons, the Church does not celebrate the specific historical decisions he may have made, but rather points to him as someone to be imitated and venerated because of his virtues, in praise of the divine grace which shines resplendently in them'.



"There is, then, no intention in any way to limit discussion concerning the concrete choices made by Pius XII in the situation in which he lived. For her part, the Church affirms that these choices were made with the pure intention of carrying out the Pontiff's service of exalted and dramatic responsibility to the best of his abilities. In any case, Pius XII's attention to and concern for the fate of the Jews - something which is certainly relevant in the evaluation of his virtues - are widely testified and recognised, also by many Jews.



"The field for research and evaluation by historians, working in their specific area, thus remains open, also for the future. In this specific case it is comprehensible that there should be a request to have open access to all possibilities of research on the documents. ... Yet for the complete opening of the archives - as has been said on a number of occasions in the past - it is necessary to organise and catalogue an enormous mass of documentation, something which still requires a number of years' work.



"As for the fact that the decree on the heroic virtues of Pope John Paul II and Pope Pius XII were promulgated on the same day, this does not mean that from now on the two causes will be 'paired'. They are completely independent of one another and each will follow its own course. There is, then, no reason to imagine that any future beatification will take place together".



"It is, then, clear that the recent signing of the decree is in no way to be read as a hostile act towards the Jewish people, and it is to be hoped that it will not be considered as an obstacle on the path of dialogue between Judaism and the Catholic Church. Rather we trust that the Pope's forthcoming visit to the Synagogue of Rome will be an opportunity for the cordial reiteration and reinforcement of ties of friendship and respect".

OP/DECREE PIUS XII/LOMBARDI VIS 091223 (660)

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Skinzo' date='23 December 2009 - 05:56 PM' timestamp='1261605395' post='2025218']
I think the author you are referring to is "Cornwell" not Cromwell.


S.
[/quote]


Yes, Cornwell. My mistake


Thanks
Jim

[Skinzo]

It's getting worse, this thoroughly slanted article is on CNN's site tonight. Aargh!
Vatican spokesman Fr. Lombardi is giving the impression that the Vatican is back pedaling from its position regarding Pius XII. Cornwell is being cited as if he is some kind of authority when in fact he has retracted his views about the pope. Guys, let's email CNN with the facts! Login there and sound off.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/12/24/pope.apology/index.html

Edited December 24, 2009 by Skinzo

[Apotheoun]

What Rabbinic Jews and the media think about Pius XII is irrelevant, because the canonization of a person as a saint by the Pope is an internal matter of the Roman Church.

[Skinzo]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='24 December 2009 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1261698475' post='2025671']
What Rabbinic Jews and the media think about Pius XII is irrelevant, because the canonization of a person as a saint by the Pope is an internal matter of the Roman Church.
[/quote]

Agreed. But I think it behooves us to set the record straight wherever we can. I myself have prevailed with a few people who were only aware of the usual media version of this.

S.