Google Fined $15,000 A Day In Copyright Case

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='18 December 2009 - 09:56 PM' timestamp='1261191371' post='2022922']
They're bought and then donated at one point. How does that contradict my logic? If you read it at the library instead of buying the book, you're depriving the author of the money he would have had if you had bought the book from him! It would have the same exact result as if I had bought the book, then printed copies of it and sold it to people.


~Sternhauser
[/quote]


The individual book I read at the library has been paid for thus it is not depriving the author. When I have checked out that individual book no one else can read it until I return it. The trouble with Google is that the book is copied by every reader, there is no one individual book, but millions of copies per reader, without the consent of the author or owner.

If the library was making copies without permission of certain individual books that would also be stealing.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='18 December 2009 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1261192313' post='2022933']
I disagree, authorship is not the same as ownership.

The "rights" to a book are usually actually owned by the publisher, not the author. But the author is still the author.
[/quote]

Authorship is ownership, the Author sells his ownership to the publisher in some way either before the book is written or after. And in many cases the author does retain part ownership.

Edited December 19, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='18 December 2009 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1261192671' post='2022936']
The individual book I read at the library has been paid for thus it is not depriving the author. When I have checked out that individual book no one else can read it until I return it. The trouble with Google is that the book is copied by every reader, there is no one individual book, but millions of copies per reader, without the consent of the author or owner.[/quote]

You're missing the point: people are reading the book for free. Does the author not [i]deserve[/i] to be remunerated for "his" ideas? Is not the value of his work determined by how many people "his" truths reach? If many people want to read the truths he created, do they not each owe him?

[quote]If the library was making copies without permission of certain individual books that would also be stealing.
[/quote]

Stealing what?

~Sternhauser

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='18 December 2009 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1261192245' post='2022932']
If I say that I was standing on a particular piece of turf before any man ever did, and have proof of it, does it therefore logically follow that I [i]own[/i] that piece of land? Of course not! It would be a fallacy. It only means that I claim to have stood there first. If you come along, and say that you stood on that ground first, it would be a lie.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


Land is not an idea. And you can claim ownership of objects that do not belong to anyone else if you discover it.

[Brother Adam]

[img]http://careersi.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/elephany.jpg[/img]

There is an elephant in the room being ignored.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='18 December 2009 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1261192994' post='2022939']
Land is not an idea. And you can claim ownership of objects that do not belong to anyone else if you discover it.
[/quote]

You're not getting the actual point of that argument, Knight of Christ. Go listen to Jeffrey Tucker's podcast. It's free. It's infinitely reproducible.

~Sternhauser

Edited December 19, 2009 by Sternhauser

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='18 December 2009 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1261192844' post='2022938']
You're missing the point: people are reading the book for free. Does the author not [i]deserve[/i] to be remunerated for "his" ideas? Is not the value of his work determined by how many people "his" truths reach? If many people want to read the truths he created, do they not each owe him? [/quote]


I know the point, your trying desperately to justify stealing property. That particular library book that people read has been paid for, the author and/or owner has been paid for that particular library book. The trouble is when one copies that property and the owner is not paid for those copies or asked permission for those copies to be made, that is when it become stealing and thievery.



[quote name='Sternhauser' date='18 December 2009 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1261192844' post='2022938']Stealing what?[/quote]


Intellectual Property.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='18 December 2009 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1261193329' post='2022942']
I know the point, your trying desperately to justify stealing property. That particular library book that people read has been paid for, the author and/or owner has been paid for that particular library book. The trouble is when one copies that property and the owner is not paid for those copies or asked permission for those copies to be made, that is when it become stealing and thievery.
Intellectual Property.
[/quote]

What is property, Knight of Christ? How do you make something yours? What is theft?

~Sternhauser

Edited December 19, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='18 December 2009 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1261193015' post='2022940']


There is an elephant in the room being ignored.
[/quote]

The elephant isn't saying anything, and it isn't moving. It needs to draw some attention to itself.

~Sternhauser

[zunshynn]

maybe it's a stuffed elephant.

[img]http://www.stuffedark.com/images/elephantbimbo.jpg[/img]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='18 December 2009 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1261193501' post='2022944']
The elephant isn't saying anything, and it isn't moving. It needs to draw some attention to itself.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

I get the feeling someone else is about to poke the elephant with a shtick.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='18 December 2009 - 10:23 PM' timestamp='1261193015' post='2022940']
[img]http://careersi.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/elephany.jpg[/img]

There is an elephant in the room being ignored.
[/quote]
Aww, be nice to Zunshynn.

[zunshynn]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='18 December 2009 - 08:38 PM' timestamp='1261193895' post='2022948']
Aww, be nice to Zunshynn.
[/quote]

Edited December 19, 2009 by zunshynn

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='18 December 2009 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1261193383' post='2022943']
What is property, Knight of Christ? How do you make something yours? What is theft?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

In this case property is a individual book and the particular words and particular ideas in that particular book. Someone owns that book if they create it or is the publisher who buys it from the author. It is theft when one posses a copy of that particular book without that individual book being paid for, or permission being given to posses that particular book. Or when copies are made without permission of the author/owner. Again a individual library book is paid for and is in the library with permission from the owner(s).

Edited December 19, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='18 December 2009 - 11:41 PM' timestamp='1261194102' post='2022952']
In this case property is a individual book and the particular words and particular ideas in that particular book. Someone owns that book if they create it or is the publisher who buys it from the author. It is theft when one posses a copy of that particular book without that individual book being paid for, or permission being given to posses that particular book. Again a individual library book is paid for and is in the library with permission from the owner(s).
[/quote]

A book is words on paper. I can make one in minutes.

~Sternhauser