Livin_the_MASS Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 8 2004, 10:10 AM'] I did, last Sunday, only YOU won't accept that I did. [/quote] Be careful Bruce danger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 It's dangerous to question everything, The Phariess did that and Jesus did not like there attitudes. Healthy reminder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amarkich Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 If you know about the Church and reject It you will probably go to Hell? I don't remember which Pope or Council affirmed that teaching. If you reject the Church you will go to Hell (period). That is what the Church has always taught. This is not to say that God cannot save whomever He chooses, but all that we know on earth is that those who are not within the Church cannot be saved, so this issue of Mohammadists (Muslims) being saved is ridiculous. I do not know how someone could claim that they adore the same God if they do not believe in God as Father, only as Master. Likewise, since they are and have always been called the infidel, it would only follow that they do not pray to God Himself but a false god (hence the term, infidel). Obviously, your comments, as others have said, were made solely with the motive to annoy or anger others, so I will not continue with the post; I only wanted to clarify that the Church has 'proclaimed, said, and defined' that only those who are Catholic will go to Heaven (even if one should "shed his blood in the name of Christ"). God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 8 2004, 04:26 AM'] Gimmie a break here, Muslims are SAVED yet Protestants are Anathema and doomed? What gives here? [/quote] This is a good example of the Church's post-conciliar newspeak. The Catechism doesn't actually say anyting heretical (such as "Muslims are saved") but it is sufficiently vague that it admits of a heretical interpretation. This is why it is imperative that Catholics be exposed to pre-Vatican II magesterial documents, so they know how to interpret these new formulations in a wy which harmonizes them with Tradition. [quote]Muslims DO NOT worship the "same God" as we do, and they totally deny the divinity of Jesus and his resurrection, to them Jesus is just one of many prophets.[/quote] In one sense they do and in another sense they do not. They identify their God as the God who ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son, and who spoke through the prophets of Israel, so in the sense that they properly identify some of the actions of the true God in history, they worship the same God. But in another sense, their view of the nature of that God is so distorted from the truth that their mental constructs can rightfully be called a false god. It all depends upon what one means when one states that Muslims worship the true God. If one means that they ostensibly worship the God of Abraham, it is a true statement; if one means that they have a covenant relationship with that God and as such can get to heaven without converting to Christ, it is most certainly false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theologian in Training Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Good answer Hananiah. Also, Bruce you might follow this link about [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm"]Hell[/url] it gives you a good idea of qualifications, speculations, and Catholic teaching on Hell. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Bruce, I ask you to stop recieving Holy Communion at the Catholic Mass. You are not in Communion, so why degrade God by saying you are. If you eat the Body of Christ unworthily, you will perish. God bless you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Good call Jake!! Also good post Hananiah!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 (edited) Whoa ... Bruce said he received the Body and Blood of Christ last Sunday but that we wouldn't accept that he did. I thought he meant that he received communion (with a small "c") at his Protestant church, which is why we wouldn't be able to accept the idea that he'd received the Body and Blood of Christ (which, as we all know, he really didn't if he's saying what I think he's saying). But if I'm wrong, Bruce, and you did receive Holy Communion, you're committing sacrilege and bringing yourself closer and closer to eternal damnation if you don't repent and stop such sacrilege. [i]O Most Holy Trinity, I adore Thee! My God, My God, I love Thee in the Most Blessed Sacrament![/i] Edited April 8, 2004 by Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willguy Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote]Gimmie a break here, Muslims are SAVED yet Protestants are Anathema and doomed? What gives here?[/quote] Where does it say that Muslims are saved. It says they worship the God of Abraham, the same God that we worship, and the same God that Protestants and Jews worship. Muslims obviously hold many beliefs that anathema, and they do not worship the God of Abraham in perfect truth, but neither, in my opinion, do Protestants or Jews. [quote]I'm going to give up morning Mass now and go to the Mosque...[/quote] Hey, you're the one who's always going on about how we can learn from other religions. Put your money where your mouth is. [quote]Muslims DO NOT worship the "same God" as we do, and they totally deny the divinity of Jesus and his resurrection, to them Jesus is just one of many prophets.[/quote] Muslims worship the God of Abraham. We worship the God of Abraham. We never said that we worship them the same way. For example, I worship a God who granted Mary the singular grace of an Immaculate Conception, assumed her into heaven, and crowned her Queen of Heaven and Earth. [quote]Anyone want to help me on this concept? Christians are doomed if they don't belong to the Catholic Church yet Muslims get a free pass? [/quote] Again, you are reading what you want to read in the Catechism instead of what it actually says. And, if you bothered reading paragraph 838, you'd see the further ignorance of your statement: [quote]838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist."[/quote] You are considered much more in communion with the Catholic Church than Muslims. Stop misrepresenting the Church, or at least find quotes that back up your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce S Posted April 8, 2004 Author Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote]I ask you to stop recieving Holy Communion at the Catholic Mass. You are not in Communion, so why degrade God by saying you are.[/quote] I don't profane your church by taking Communion, I do NOT qualify, I accept that, and honor that belief. I take communion, at our church where anyone there is invited to, we don't have your requirements to partake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 and in every church I've been in, even when we take part in Communion, they ask, "If you are not saved, or are not walking right with the Lord, we ask you to let the elements pass by." not everyone in our church takes part in Communion either. Because though we do it in memory of what Christ did, it is something that is reserved for the Brethren and Sistren in Christ. 1 Corinthians 11 [quote]27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.[/quote] and this link further explains the verses. [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1081455212-2325.html"]Communion[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 8 2004, 12:05 PM'] I don't profane your church by taking Communion, I do NOT qualify, I accept that, and honor that belief. I take communion, at our church where anyone there is invited to, we don't have your requirements to partake. [/quote] Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagiDragon Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 8 2004, 02:05 PM'] I don't profane your church by taking Communion, I do NOT qualify, I accept that, and honor that belief. I take communion, at our church where anyone there is invited to, we don't have your requirements to partake. [/quote] *wipes brow* You had me worried there bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 8 2004, 01:17 PM'] and in every church I've been in, even when we take part in Communion, they ask, "If you are not saved, or are not walking right with the Lord, we ask you to let the elements pass by." not everyone in our church takes part in Communion either. Because though we do it in memory of what Christ did, it is something that is reserved for the Brethren and Sistren in Christ. 1 Corinthians 11 and this link further explains the verses. [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1081455212-2325.html"]Communion[/url] [/quote] What does your church teach is the penalty for being guilty of the Body and Blood of Christ? I'm just curious. Is it damnation? Would a Protestant who partakes in communion unworthily be damned? I mean, "guilty of the Body and Blood of Christ" seems pretty grave? If it isn't damnation, what does "guilty of the Body and Blood of Christ" mean? If it IS damnation, then I would have to ask: Isn't that a tough penalty for eating a symbolic mean unworthily? Wouldn't that be JUST as harsh as say, damnation for eating a hamberger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 8 2004, 03:17 PM']and in every church I've been in, even when we take part in Communion, they ask, "If you are not saved, or are not walking right with the Lord, we ask you to let the elements pass by." not everyone in our church takes part in Communion either. Because though we do it in memory of what Christ did, it is something that is reserved for the Brethren and Sistren in Christ. 1 Corinthians 11 and this link further explains the verses. [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1081455212-2325.html"]Communion[/url][/quote] Your Communion is not the True Presence of Christ. It has to be a ordained priest from a Bishop from the line of Peter in order to call upon the Holy Spirit and change the Bread and Wine into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Do you think Paul was talking about profaning some bread or grape jucie? Ahhh no! Its the Body and Blood Truly Present that you profane if you recieve it unworthily! peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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