Gay Marriage, And Divorce = Massive Hypocrits?

[Guest Daniel Nicholas]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='14 December 2009 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1260777036' post='2020148']
I use the OED.
[/quote]

Yes, but the definition of the word 'hypocrit' given in this dictionary is my intended meaning.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypocrit

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Daniel Nicholas' date='14 December 2009 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1260777223' post='2020151']
Yes, but the definition of the word 'hypocrit' given in this dictionary is my intended meaning.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypocrit
[/quote]

I don't care. That word doesn't exist in standard written English.

[HisChildForever]

[TotusTuusMaria]

this has gotten off topic and has resorted to just lameness.

debating over the spelling of a word?

lame.

[organwerke]

[quote name='Daniel Nicholas' date='14 December 2009 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1260774483' post='2020115']
I believe divorce is completely fine, my parents divorced and It didn't destroy or ruin my childhood. And I believe it would be more harmful if people were not allowed to re-marry and were forced to die alone.
[/quote]

Yes, I imagined this, in fact you started your thread saying "massive hypocrits", you started complaining the fact that in your opinion Catholics don't have anti-divorce demonstrations, since Jesus was really anti-divorce...and then you say: well, I believe divorce is completely fine etc etc.
Please if you wish people not to be hypocrit try to be coherent yourself first.

[Guest Daniel Nicholas]

[quote name='organwerke' date='14 December 2009 - 08:28 PM' timestamp='1260782905' post='2020159']
Yes, I imagined this, in fact you started your thread saying "massive hypocrits", you started complaining the fact that in your opinion Catholics don't have anti-divorce demonstrations, since Jesus was really anti-divorce...and then you say: well, I believe divorce is completely fine etc etc.
Please if you wish people not to be hypocrit try to be coherent yourself first.
[/quote]

Im allowed to be a hypocrite (technically I'm not), I don't follow your religion, I don't believe in God, I follow my own common-sense and critical thinking. You, however, are bound by your religion, so therefore you must agree with Jesus.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Daniel Nicholas' date='14 December 2009 - 02:56 AM' timestamp='1260773796' post='2020108']
This is probably common-knowledge. The Catholic church (and most Christian religions) are very publically against same-sex marriage and obviously the biggest objectors to gay marriage.

Jesus, did not say anything, not a single word, on homosexuality at all. (Which I find strange)
http://ldolphin.org/Homo.shtml[/quote]

[b]1)[/b] Jesus confirmed the Father's plan of marriage: one man, one woman, one flesh.

“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” Matt. 19:4

[b]2)[/b] The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot be separated from each other. The Holy Trinity. They are always in union. One's words speak or would speak in accordance with the others'.

The Lord says in Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

The Lord says in Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

So, Jesus, being Lord and being of the Holy Trinity, speaks the same words.

[b]3)[/b] Jesus spoke and said in John 16:12-15 that the Holy Spirit would lead the apostles - would lead the Church - in all truth, that the Holy Spirit would not speak on His own authority but on the authority of Christ.

Paul spoke, guided by the Holy Spirit and thus speaking by Christ's authority.

He said, as Rexi pointed out...

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

He also speaks disapprovingly of it in [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/romans/romans1.htm"]Romans 1:26-27[/url].

The Church, also speaking with the authority of Christ Himself, has also - as you so well seem to know - speaks disapprovingly of homosexual acts.

[b]So, to sum it all up, Christ has spoken very clearly about homosexual acts.[/b]

[quote]Personally, I believe its wrong that they should make their religious beleifs law.[/quote]

Ok.

What are you wanting to debate here ???

There is nothing that says that their personal beliefs cannot or should not effect the way they vote. Your personal beliefs effect the way you vote. Whether you believe it wrong or not, by lawful standards, they are doing what is perfectly in their right to do. And the American way is that the people - the majority - make the laws in this country.

[quote]
However, Divorce...

[b]Matthew 19:[/b]9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." - Jesus

[b]Mark 10:[/b]11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." - Jesus

[b]Luke 16[/b]:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." - Jesus

And........... What is the punishment for adultery in the bible?[/quote]

You are speaking to those that already hold these same views.

(fyi) The Catholic Church is the most critical and outspoken... probably in the world, against divorce.

[quote]Now, what I find extremely strange is, why isn't there huge Christian/Catholic opposition to divorce?[/quote]

There is.

Look up the history of the legalization of divorce. In most all predominantly Catholic Countries you will hear briefly of the "strong opposition" of the Catholic Church before its final legalization. There are still countries were divorce is illegal. What are those countries? Philippines and Malta. Yeah, check the religious sector in those countries. 97%+ Catholic.

Recently in 2004 Chile legalized divorce after HUGE heated opposition from the Catholic Church. There was a physical protest held against the legalization of divorce. The Church aired television ads against the legalization of divorce. Church authorities spoke out vehemently against such legalization. The President upon legalization was even quoted as saying, "We cannot impose the positions of one sector [the Catholic, religious] of our society on all Chileans".

[quote]Where are the anti-divorce demonstrations? Why isn't the Westboro Baptist church running around with "GOD HATES DIVORCEES" "DIVORCEES GO TO HELL" signs?[/quote]

[b]1)[/b] The Westboro Baptist Church present .000000001% of the claimed Christian population in the world, if not less. You cannot rightly represent the "Christian/Catholic" people by the Westboro Baptist Church. lame.

[b]2)[/b] I doubt anyone here is of the opinion that the Westboro Church is not made up of a bunch of loonies

[b]3)[/b] Protestant churches are more apt to not oppose divorce because of what they consider a clause in their translation of the Gospel: "unless of unfaithfulness" which Catholic translations view differently.

Which brings us to another observation about the lack of political activism against already legalized divorce in the United States... the United States is a Protestant Christian country. For the majority, Protestantism accepts this supposed clause. When put to a poll recently it was found that among Atheists, Catholics and Orthodox, and Protestants that Protestants had the highest divorce ratings. They do not see divorce as wrong when their spouse has cheated on them, which apparently happens often. 2/3 of my Protestant friends have been divorced and are remarried and/or looking because their spouse cheated on them. Going back to what I said earlier, the United States is a Protestant country and I believe that is why you fail to see the majority of Christian people here opposing divorce. They honestly believe it moral in some circumstances because of their translation.

[quote]Jesus appears [b]extremely[/b], [b]extremely, extremely[/b] anti-divorce, yet, not so much anti-homosexual?[/quote]

Don't fool yourself. He is both against divorce as he is homosexual acts. He speaks of both disapprovingly.

[quote]So, why is not divorce placed on the agenda of Christians/Catholics whom want to enforce their religion on the entire population?[/quote]

Read about the international struggles against divorce and be informed. Catholics are always struggling against such legalization. And the reason why you probably don't see the opposition here in a predominately Protestant country is because most Protestants believe that divorce is moral in some circumstances based on their translation of Scripture whereas their translation correctly acknowledges one man, one woman, one flesh so they act fervently to protect that. Cherry-picked? ... perhaps... although, I don't think they do it intentionally. It is what they honestly believe based on their translation.

[quote]Shouldn't divorce be a higher priority? It far appears as if it should.[/quote]

They are both immoral. They both deserve to be opposed.

[quote]My own logical explanation, is that the majority of Christians just use their religion to support their own bigotry. So it's like 'cherry picking' bible verses they want enforced. They don't like it and they have a religion to support their bigotry. (not all Christians, but obviously most)

But how do you explain it?
[/quote]

The Catholic Church does not cherry-pick. It says, as does Christ, that both homosexual acts/same-sex marriage and divorce/remarriage are immoral and it actively seeks to oppose the legalization of such immoral acts. Since you realize that not all Christians do this (the Catholic Church does not) then why are you filtering the Catholic debate board (the one that doesn't) with such rants?

[organwerke]

In fact I do agree with Jesus but [b]you[/b] started quoting Jesus' words and [b]you[/b] complained that we don't have anti-divorce demonstrations. Do you think that we don't follow Jesus because we don't have enough anti-divorce demonstrations?

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='organwerke' date='14 December 2009 - 06:56 AM' timestamp='1260788166' post='2020163']
In fact I do agree with Jesus but [b]you[/b] started quoting Jesus' words and [b]you[/b] complained that we don't have anti-divorce demonstrations. Do you think that we don't follow Jesus because we don't have enough anti-divorce demonstrations?
[/quote]

But the thing is.... WE DO.

If he wants to rant to Christians about their cherry-picking he needs to take it to a different forum and rant to those "ecclesial communities" about their lack of standing up for what they supposedly are bound to believe.

The Catholic Church does and will continue to.

Edited December 14, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[jonyelmony]

Divorce is not new, If divorce was to be introduced for the first time in a nation such as Philippines you may see some demonstrations there. Gay Marriage is very very new, thus the demonstrations when ever legislators try and introduce it. If civil Gay marriages came with assurances that Religions would not be punished under discrimination laws for not recognizing them then the reaction would probably be far less hysterical.

Were you aware of the Catholic stand on divorce previous to posting this topic, generally the stance is considered far to harsh.

[jonyelmony]

I also find it ridiculous when when atheists spout word for word the memes of the current secualr society but then declare that religous people lack critical thought.

[organwerke]

I find ridicolous when atheists quote Jesus and then they say that they are atheist so they don't follow Him.
So, why they quote Him if they don't follow nor agree with Him? This is what I call a non-coherent behaviour.
But if they want to take Jesus' words as reference they have already the answer: in fact, when speaking about divorce, Jesus always speaks about wife/husband and man/woman, he never says "a husband that divorce a man and marries another" or "a wife that divorces a woman and marries another" but: "Anyone who divorces [b]his wife [/b]and marries [b]another woman [/b] commits adultery, and the [b]man who marries a divorced woman [/b]commits adultery".
So Jesus considers marriage only between man and woman, and says that the person who divorces and [b]remarries[/b] commit adultery.
This is exactly the Church's Teaching. Where are we hypocrit?

[CatherineM]

I did many divorces in my practice, some annulments, and a lot of marriage mediations. I will tell you why I believe we should be against divorces. Because when two people enter a marriage knowing there is an easy out, they have no incentive to work anything out. When you enter marriage with the true knowledge that divorce is not an option, then you have to talk to each other, you have to learn to compromise, and you have to learn to love each other enough to truly communicate.

I remember having a discussion with a gay client that I was doing some estate planning with in 1989 about the possibility of gay marriages being recognized sometime in the future, and she said, "50% of straight marriages end in divorce, so why would we want to get into that mess?"

And yes, my husband and I entered into our marriage with the complete understanding that divorce would never happen.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Daniel Nicholas' date='14 December 2009 - 01:56 AM' timestamp='1260773796' post='2020108']
This is probably common-knowledge. The Catholic church (and most Christian religions) are very publically against same-sex marriage and obviously the biggest objectors to gay marriage. Personally, I believe its wrong that they should make their religious beleifs law.

Jesus, did not say anything, not a single word, on homosexuality at all. (Which I find strange)
http://ldolphin.org/Homo.shtml

However, Divorce...

[b]Matthew 19:[/b]9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." - Jesus

[b]Mark 10:[/b]11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." - Jesus

[b]Luke 16[/b]:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." - Jesus

And........... What is the punishment for adultery in the bible?

_____________________________________________________________________________

Now, what I find extremely strange is, why isn't there huge Christian/Catholic opposition to divorce? Where are the anti-divorce demonstrations? Why isn't the Westboro Baptist church running around with "GOD HATES DIVORCEES" "DIVORCEES GO TO HELL" signs?

Jesus appears [b]extremely[/b], [b]extremely, extremely[/b] anti-divorce, yet, not so much anti-homosexual?


So, why is not divorce placed on the agenda of Christians/Catholics whom want to enforce their religion on the entire population?

Shouldn't divorce be a higher priority? It far appears as if it should.

My own logical explanation, is that the majority of Christians just use their religion to support their own bigotry. So it's like 'cherry picking' bible verses they want enforced. They don't like it and they have a religion to support their bigotry. (not all Christians, but obviously most)

But how do you explain it?
[/quote]
It's nice to know that not only American schools produce addled, lobotomized children.

Thank you for affirming that mental weakness is an international phenomenon.

[Varg]

Who's in your profile pic, Dan?