Scriptures That Prove The Trinity

[Nihil Obstat]

Hehe, he ignored me.


You should stop this egregious abuse of CAPS LOCK.
It makes for a TEDIOUS read. I'm really getting quite SICK of it.

[HisChildForever]

He never said where the New Testament (or the entire Bible) comes from. I suppose it just fell out of the sky and rearranged itself into the King James.

[MIKolbe]

yes..

leather bound and Jesus' words in [color="#FF0000"]red[/color].

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 09:18 AM' timestamp='1265289524' post='2051123']
*["Tell me where did the New Testament come from? Who put it together? Who decided the contents? Who guarantees it the Word of God?"]

***I'll let the Bible speak for itself. Does it claim to be God's Word? Yes! In fact, over 2,000 times in the OT alone it asserts that God spoke what is written within its pages...from the beginning [Genesis 1:3] to the end [Malachi 4:3]. and continuously throughout, this is what Scripture claims.

The phrase "the Word of God" occurs over 40 times in the NT. It is equated with the OT [Mark 7:13]...it is what Jesus preached [Luke 5:1]...it was the message the apostles taught [Acts 4:31;6:2]...it was the Word the Samaritans received [Acts 8:14] as given by the apostles [Acts 8:25]...it was the message the Gentiles received as preached by Peter [Acts 11:1]...it was the word Paul preached on his first missionary journey [Acts 13:5,7,44,48,49;15:35,36]...it was the message Paul preached on his second missionary journey [Acts 16:32;17:13;18:11]...it was the message Paul preached on his third missionary journey [Acts 19:10]. It was the focus of Luke in the Book of Acts in that it spread rapidly and widely [Acts 6:7;12:24;19:20]. Paul was careful to tell the Corinthians that he spoke the Word as it was GIVEN FROM God, that it had not been adulterated, and that it was a manifestation of truth [2 Corinthians 2:17;4:2]. Paul acknowledged that it was the SOURCE of his preaching [Colossians 1:25;1 Thessalonians 2:13].

Psalms 19 and 119, plus Proverbs 30:5-6, make powerful statements about God's Word which set it apart from ANY other religious instruction ever known in the history of mankind. These passages make the case for the Bible being called "sacred" [2 Timothy 3:15] and "holy" [Romans 1:2].

The Bible claims ULTIMATE SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY in DOCTRINE, REPROOF, CORRECTION, and INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS because it represents the INSPIRED Word of Almighty God [2 Timothy 3:16,17]. Scripture asserts its SPIRITUAL SUFFICIENCY, so much so that it claims EXCLUSIVITY for its teaching [Isaiah 55:11;2 Peter 1:3,4].

God's Word declares that it is INERRANT [Psalm 12:6;119:140;Proverbs 30:5a;John 10:35] and INFALLIBLE [2 Timothy 3:16,17]. In other words, it is true and therefore TRUSTWORTHY. All of these qualities are dependent on the fact that Scripture is God-given [2 Timothy 3:16;2 Peter 1:20,21], which guarantees its quality at the SOURCE and at its ORIGINAL writing.

In Scripture, the person of God and the Word of God are everywhere interrelated...so much so that whatsoever is true about the character of God is true about the NATURE of God's Word. God is TRUE, IMPECCABLE, and RELIABLE; therefore, so is His Word. What a person thinks about God's Word, in reality, reflects what a person THINKS ABOUT GOD.


*["The Catholic Church."]

***Pure unadulterated NONSENSE!


*["...If you insult the church you insult the Scriptures and you insult God. MAYBE you should rethink your opinion."]

***That is a LIE right out of the pit of Hell. Too, you will not dictate to me what I should rethink. My opinions are based on the dictates of Scripture which you and your church HATE and DENY. The Scriptures focuses the light of truth on the heresies promulgated by your church throughout the ages--which have consigned untold millions to everlasting perdition (some of whom are my family members) and I hate the "whore" for that.


*["Scripture itself [ that catholic library you are fond of quoting] itself states " the church is the pillar and foundation". Are you calling scripture a liar?"]

***I refuted that argument in a previous post at length. No, I am not calling Scripture a Liar...I am calling YOU and your APOSTATE Church LIARS!


*["You may dislike what you think Catholic Church teachings are, and that is your perogative, but I suggest you watch your phrasing. Differences of opinion are fine, insults are not."]

***Your Church and its doctrines are CONTRARY to what the Scriptures teach...and that is why you DENY them as the SOLE Authority. Your doctrines CANNOT stand the SCRUTINY of the Scriptures and are, as such, FALSE! I cannot and will NOT violate God's Word by remaining silent while you and your Church LIE about the SUFFICIENCY of His Word and attack it to perpetuate your church's lies which have consigned untold millions to Hell for almost two thousand years. Of course, I know that I will pay for these remarks by being BANNED...but I recant NOT!

Damiano
[/quote]
Your wish to appear a martyr won't be supplied by us. We have heard all the rantings against the Church before. Many people here are former baptists, fundies, generics etc.

Again who put the New testament together? Who guarentees its authority?
The Catholic Church.

If you disrespect the Church, you Disrescpect the Scriptures you disrespect God.
SCRIPTURE [ I can play cap lock as well ] says the Church is the pillar and foundation.
"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."
- 1 Timothy 3,15

[Arpy]

[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1265289524' post='2051123']
The Bible claims ULTIMATE SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY in DOCTRINE, REPROOF, CORRECTION, and INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS because it represents the INSPIRED Word of Almighty God [2 Timothy 3:16,17]. Scripture asserts its SPIRITUAL SUFFICIENCY, so much so that it claims EXCLUSIVITY for its teaching [Isaiah 55:11;2 Peter 1:3,4].
[/quote]
Isaiah 55:11 reads, in my undoubtedly corrupt and uninspired papist Bible, "So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth, it shall not return to me void, but shall do my will, achieving the end for which I sent it." I see nothing that says "It is all that is needed to achieve my ends." I assume the numbering is rather different in our Bibles, because I see nothing about the word of God in 1 Peter 3 or 4. An agency to interpret Scripture is needed, otherwise we end up with all kinds of heresy. If someone were to say that Isaiah 1:14 proves that God hates the Twilight "Saga" and the Holy Spirit has made it known to him, you can only trump him with your own interpretation of that verse, and how is yours any better? The same Spirit is guiding your interpretations, right?
[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1265289524' post='2051123']
God's Word declares that it is INERRANT [Psalm 12:6;119:140;Proverbs 30:5a;John 10:35] and INFALLIBLE [2 Timothy 3:16,17]. In other words, it is true and therefore TRUSTWORTHY. All of these qualities are dependent on the fact that Scripture is God-given [2 Timothy 3:16;2 Peter 1:20,21], which guarantees its quality at the SOURCE and at its ORIGINAL writing.
[/quote]
Scripture is God-given, yes. So is the church that Christ founded. Christ was God and He built his Church upon Peter, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. [Matt: 16:18] As a side note, 2 Tim. 3:16,17 says nothing about scripture being infallible. I do not think that word means what you think it means.
[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1265289524' post='2051123']
***That is a LIE right out of the pit of Hell. Too, you will not dictate to me what I should rethink. My opinions are based on the dictates of Scripture which you and your church HATE and DENY. The Scriptures focuses the light of truth on the heresies promulgated by your church throughout the ages--which have consigned untold millions to everlasting perdition (some of whom are my family members) and I hate the "whore" for that.
[/quote]
I thought Christians are supposed to love their enemies...You'll have a much better chance of converting people (if that's what you're really out to do) with reasoned debate than you will with CAPS LOCK and THREATS OF ETERNAL DAMNATION. Love the person, loathe their ideas if you must.
[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1265289524' post='2051123']
*["Scripture itself [ that catholic library you are fond of quoting] itself states " the church is the pillar and foundation". Are you calling scripture a liar?"]

***I refuted that argument in a previous post at length. No, I am not calling Scripture a Liar...I am calling YOU and your APOSTATE Church LIARS!
[/quote]
Our apostate Church decided which books belong in the Scriptural canon. This is historical fact, and everything was pretty peachy until Martin Luther came along with his own brand of heresy.
[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1265289524' post='2051123']
***Your Church and its doctrines are CONTRARY to what the Scriptures teach...and that is why you DENY them as the SOLE Authority. Your doctrines CANNOT stand the SCRUTINY of the Scriptures and are, as such, FALSE!
[/quote]
Actually, there's nothing in Catholic doctrine that directly contradicts the Scriptures. There are some things that are only supported indirectly, but ultimately it is only your incompletely formed interpretations of Scripture that go against what the Church teaches.

[Damiano]

*["Again who put the New testament together? Who guarentees its authority? The Catholic Church."]

***Compared to the NT, there was very little controversy over the canon of the OT. Hebrew believers recognized God's messengers and accepted their writings as inspired of God. While there was some debate in regards to the OT canon, by 250 A.D. there was nearly universal agreement on the canon of Hebrew Scripture. The only issue that remained was the Apocrypha, with some debate and discussion continuing today. The vast majority of Hebrew scholars considered the Apocrypha to be good historical and religious documents, but NOT on the same level as the Hebrew Scriptures.

For the NT, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the Christian church. Very early on, some of the NT books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke's writings to be as authoratative as the OT [1 Timothy 5:18]; see also [Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7]. Peter recognized Paul's writings as Scripture [2 Peter 3:15-16]. Some of the books of the NT were being circulated among the churches [Colossians 4:16;1 Thessalonians 5:27]. Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight NT books (95 A.D.)..Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books (115 A.D.)...Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (108 A.D.). Later, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (185 A.D.)...Hippolytus recognized 22 books (170-235 A.D.). The NT books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John.

The first "canon" was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in 170 A.D. The Muratorian Canon included all of the NT books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In 363 A.D., the Council of Laodicea stated that only the OT (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the NT were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo (393 A.D.) and the Council of Carthage (397 A.D.) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoratative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a NT book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: (1)Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? (2)Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? (3)Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? (4)Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did NOT determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon...it was GOD, and GOD ALONE, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God's imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was FLAWED, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

BOTTOM LINE: As much as your church likes to boast that it put the Bible together, the fact remains that the NT existed as a result of GOD. The Roman Catholic church only ACKNOWLEDGED what ALREADY EXISTED, and that long BEFORE its council convened.

In addition, the Bible is NOT the product of the Church, and especially NOT the Catholic church. The Bible existed over 500 years BEFORE the first man took on the title of "universal bishop."
The Bible solidly states that it is a product of God, NOT of man nor of the church. It is the Bible which defines the church and NOT the other way around: "But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is NOT according to MAN. For I neither received it FROM MAN, nor was I taught it, but it CAME through the REVELATION of Jesus Christ" [Galatians 1:11-12].

The problem with the Roman Catholic Church is that it does NOT support the TRUTH (the Word Of God, the Bible). It supports its traditions. Where those traditions conflict with the Bible, it claims the right to MODIFY the Bible's teaching (and thus is claiming the right to modify the truth).


*["...SCRIPTURE says the Church is the pillar and foundation...1 Timothy 3,15..."]

***Is the church the pillar and ground of the truth? You say yes, and point to [1 Timothy 3:15] as proof. A cursory reading of this verse would seem to support your contention that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth. You allege that the church upholds the truth, which means that the church existed BEFORE the truth. Your charge that the church gave the Bible to the world could not be questioned IF this position were true. However, we as members of the Lord's church DENY this claim by the Catholic church.

The fact is that the truth UPHOLDS the church, NOT vice versa. The foundation [1 Corinthians 3:11] upon which the church is founded is the truth that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God [Matthew 16:18]. As members of the Lord's church, we turn to the truth of God's Word as our guide in faith and practice [Colossians 3:17]. This being the case, what is the pillar and ground of the truth? For the answer to this question we need only to examine [1 Timothy 3:15,16]. These two verses taken together read, "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness: God was MANIFESTED in the flesh, JUSTIFIED in the Spirit, SEEN of angels, PREACHED unto the Gentiles, BELIEVED on in the world, RECEIVED up into glory." Paul here was NOT writing that the church WAS the pillar and ground of the truth. RATHER, he WAS writing THAT the pillar and ground of the truth IS that Jesus was MANIFEST in the FLESH!!!

This being said, let us read these verses DIFFERENTLY...to wit: "But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God. The pillar and ground of the truth (and without controversy great) is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory" [1 Timothy 3:15,16].

Now, the church is to support the truth by following it...defending it...and teaching it to others. However, this is a far cry from saying that the church is the very foundation upon which the truth rests.

The pillar and ground of the truth is the fact that Jesus came in the flesh...that He was the Incarnate Son of the Living God who walked upon the earth and died for our sins. THIS fact is that which upholds the ENTIRETY of the truth of God's Word. It is the very FOUNDATION upon which the church is built, and upon which she continues to stand.

Damiano

[Arpy]

Thank you for toning down the vitriol. I look forward to your rebuttal of my points.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1265332809' post='2051378']
The problem with the Roman Catholic Church is that it does NOT support the TRUTH (the Word Of God, the Bible). It supports its traditions. Where those traditions conflict with the Bible, it claims the right to MODIFY the Bible's teaching (and thus is claiming the right to modify the truth).
[/quote]

Examples please.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Damiano' date='04 February 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1265332809' post='2051378']
*["Again who put the New testament together? Who guarentees its authority? The Catholic Church."]


For the NT, the process of the recognition and collection began in the first centuries of the [Christian] [color="#FF0000"]Catholic[/color] church. Very early on, some of the NT books were being recognized. Paul considered Luke's writings to be as authoratative as the OT [1 Timothy 5:18]; see also [Deuteronomy 25:4 and Luke 10:7]. Peter recognized Paul's writings as Scripture [2 Peter 3:15-16]. Some of the books of the NT were being circulated among the churches [Colossians 4:16;1 Thessalonians 5:27]. Clement of Rome mentioned at least eight NT books
[color="#8B0000"]He happened to be Pope Clement of the Catholic Church[/color].(95 A.D.)..Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books [color="#FF0000"]{He is a Saint of the Catholic Church][/color](115 A.D.)...Polycarp,[[color="#FF0000"]another Catholic Saint[/color]] a disciple of John the apostle, acknowledged 15 books (108 A.D.). Later, [[color="#FF0000"]Saint[/color]]Irenaeus mentioned 21 books (185 A.D.)...Hippolytus recognized 22 books (170-235 A.D.). The NT books receiving the most controversy were Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John.

The first "canon" was the Muratorian Canon, which was compiled in 170 A.D. The Muratorian Canon included all of the NT books except Hebrews, James, and 3 John. In 363 A.D., the [[color="#FF0000"]again this is Catholic[/color]]Council of Laodicea stated that only the OT (along with the Apocrypha) and the 27 books of the NT were to be read in the churches. The Council of Hippo [C[color="#FF0000"]Catholic[/color]](393 A.D.) and the Council of Carthage [[color="#FF0000"]Catholic[/color]](397 A.D.) also affirmed the same 27 books as authoratative.

The councils followed something similar to the following principles to determine whether a NT book was truly inspired by the Holy Spirit: (1)Was the author an apostle or have a close connection with an apostle? (2)Is the book being accepted by the body of Christ at large? (3)Did the book contain consistency of doctrine and orthodox teaching? (4)Did the book bear evidence of high moral and spiritual values that would reflect a work of the Holy Spirit? Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did NOT determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon...it was GOD, and GOD ALONE, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God's imparting to His followers what He had already decided. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was FLAWED, but God, in His sovereignty, and despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

BOTTOM
In addition, the Bible is NOT the product of the Church, and especially NOT the Catholic church. The Bible existed over 500 years BEFORE the first man took on the title of "universal bishop."
[/quote]
I corrected and added the details you left out in red.
St Peter was the first universal bishop and You yourself quoted Pope ST Clement who was writing as the bishop of Rome who had sovereignty of all the other Churches.

[CatherineM]

I want to interject with a quote. "We concede—as we must—that so much of what the Catholic Church says is true: that the Papacy has God’s word and the office of the Apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, baptism, the sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?" That’s by Martin Luther. Even he acknowledged that the Catholic Church is the custodian of Sacred Scripture.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='03 February 2010 - 05:07 AM' timestamp='1265191669' post='2050325']
What you have quoted here is generally held to be a marginal gloss which crept into the manuscript tradition via copyist error some time in the middle ages. In the sixteenth century Erasmus was pressured into including it in his collation of the Greek New Testament which became the basis of many translations for several centuries (including the King James and the Luther Bible).

The early Greek manuscripts do not include this verse and it is not quoted or expounded upon by the fathers. Here is a copy of Erasmus' second edition [url="http://anemi.lib.uoc.gr/php/pdf_pager.php?filename=/var/www/tkl-portal-neo//metadata/b/9/1/attached-metadata-106-0000100/268979.pdf&pageno=256&pagestart=1&width=595&height=420&maxpage=277&lang=en"]Greek New Testament[/url] (c. 1524) which clearly omits the comma (the controversies that led to its later inclusion are well documented). If anyone would like to peep the applicable pericope in some early Greek manuscripts here you go: [url="http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=55&chapter=5&lid=en&side=r&verse=7&zoomSlider=0"]Codex Sinaiticus[/url]; [url="http://images.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA_02/GA02_086a.jpg"]Codex Alexandrinus[/url]; [url="http://images.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA_03/GA03_106a.jpg"]Codex Vaticanus[/url].

The critical apparatus of the [i]Novum Testamentum Graece[/i] pretty much says it all imo. This [url="http://openscriptures.org/prototypes/manuscript-comparator/?passage=1John.5.7-1John.5.8&view=parallel&strongs=1"] Manuscript Comparator[/url] represents a neat idea. Looks like many of the pages are inaccessible online but here is [url="http://books.google.com/books?id=231LfndVpPsC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false"]Sacra Pagina: 1, 2 and 3 John[/url]; some of these issues are discussed beginning around page 300. Besides this I would suggest reading a bit of [url="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Bruce+Metzger&x=0&y=0"]Bruce Metzger[/url] if you're interested in these kind of things.

Btw, my purpose here is not to win converts to textual criticism but only to point out that using the [i]Comma Johanneum[/i] as a proof of the Trinity may get you into trouble, and I figured it would be better to hear these things from a fellow Catholic rather than a debate opponent.
[/quote]

Nice post, LD.

[Damiano]

*["Examples please."]

***Before I cite my examples, I will post the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church website (on line) so that you can read the citations yourself. Too, the abreviations RC=Catholic Church and BC=Biblical Christianity. The bracketed numbers are references to the Catechism of the Catholic Church---and all scripture references are from the King James Bible.

The Catholic website: [url="http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html"]www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/ccc.html[/url]

(1)RC says: Justification is a transformation of the soul in which original sin is removed and sanctifying grace infused (1987-1995).
BC says: Justification is an act of God in which He declares a sinner to be righteous in His sight, having forgiven his sins and imputed to him God's own righteousness [Romans 3:21-31;4:1-8].

(2)RC says: Initial justification is by means of baptism (1262-1274).
BC says: Justification is by faith alone [Romans 3:28].

(3)RC says: Adults must prepare for justification through faith and good works (1247-1249).
BC says: God justifies ungodly sinners who believe [Romans 4:5]...Good works are the result of salvation, not the cause [Ephesians 2:8-10].

(4)RC says: The justified are in themselves beautiful and holy in God's sight (1992, 1999-2000, 2024).
BC says: The justified are in Christ holy and blameless before God [Ephesians 1:1-14].

(5)RC says: Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works (1212, 1392, 2010).
BC says: Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God [2 Corinthians 5:21]...In Christ the believer has been made complete [Colossians 2:10].

(6)RC says: Justification is lost through mortal sin (1033, 1855, 1874).
BC says: Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies, He also glorifies [Romans 8:30].

(7)RC says: Catholics guilty of mortal sin are justified again through the sacrament of penance (980, 1446).
BC says: There is no second justification. Those whom God justifies, He also glorifies [Romans 5:8-9].

(8)RC says: Salvation from the eternal consequences of sin is a lifelong process (161-162, 1254-1255)
BC says: Salvation from the eternal consequences of sin is an instantaneous and secure act of God coinciding with justification [Romans 5:9].

(9)RC says: Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments (183, 1129, 1815, 2002).
BC says: Dalvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works [Ephesians 2:8-9]...Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation [Ephesians 2:10].

(10)RC says: Faith is belief in God and the firm acceptance of all that the Church proposes for belief (181-182, 1814).
BC says: Saving faith is the entrusting of oneself to Christ as Lord and Savior [Romans 10:8-17].

(11)RC says: Sanctifying grace is a quality of the soul, a supernatural disposition that perfects the soul (1999-2000).
BC says: Grace is the undeserved favor of God [Ephesians 1:7-8].

(12)RC says: The sacraments are necessary channels for the continual infusion of grace. They bestow grace in virtue of the rite performed (1127-1129).
BC says: The child of God is the constant object of the Father's grace [Romans 5:1-2].

(13)RC says: Grace is merited by good works (2010, 2027).
BC says: Grace is a FREE gift [Romans 11:6].

(14) RC says:Venial sins do not incur eternal punishment (1855, 1863).
BC says: EVERY SIN is punishable by eternal death [Romans 6:23].

(15)RC says: Serious sins must be confessed to a priest (1456-1457).
BC says: Sin is to be confessed directly to God [Ezra 10:11].

(16)RC says: The priest forgives sins as a judge (1442, 1461).
BC says: No one can forgive sin but God alone [Mark 2:7].

(17)RC says: When the guilt of sin is forgiven, temporal punishment remains (1472-1473).
BC says: When God forgives sin, He completely forgives [Colossians 2:13;Isaiah 43:25].

(18)RC says: Acts of penance make satisfaction for the temporal punishment of sin (1434, 1459-1460).
BC says: Jesus Christ made perfect satisfaction for all sins [1 John 2:1-2].

(19)RC says: Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment (1471-1473).
BC says: Jesus releases believers from their sins by His BLOOD [Revelation 1:5].

(20)RC says: Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and cleanse the soul (1030-1031).
BC says: Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross [Hebrews 1:3].

(21)RC says: Poor souls suffering in purgatory can be helped by those alive on earth offering up prayers, good works, and the sacrifice of the Mass (1032, 1371, 1479).
BC says: Those who sleep in Christ need no help. To be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord [2 Corinthians 5:8].

(22)RC says: No one can know that he will attain eternal life (1036, 2005).
BC says: Yhe believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God [1 John 5:13].

(23)RC says: Eternal life is a merited reward (1821, 2010).
BC says: Eternal life is the free gift of God [Romans 6:23].

(24)RC says: The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation (846).
BC says: There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, "for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved" [Acts 4:12].

(25)RC says: The Last Supper was a real sacrifice in which Christ's blood was poured out for our sins in the cup (610-611, 621, 1339).
BC says: The Last Supper was a Passover meal. Christ's blood was poured out for our sins at the Cross [1 Peter 2:24].

(26)RC says: The bread and wine become the real body and blood of Christ (1373-1377).
BC says: The bread and wine are symbols of the body and blood of Christ [1 Corinthians 11:23-25].

(27)RC says: Christ's body and blood exist wholly and entirely in every fragment of consecrated bread and wine in every Roman Catholic church around the world (1374, 1377).
BC says: Christ is bodily present in heaven [Hebrews 10:12-13].

(28)RC says: The consecrated bread and wine are heavenly food which help one to attain eternal life (1392, 1405, 1419).
BC says: The bread and wine are symbols which help one remember Christ [Luke 22:19].

(29)RC says: God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshipped as divine (1378-1381).
BC says: God forbids the worship of any object, even those intended to represent Him [Exodus 20:4-5;Isaiah 42:8].

(30)RC says: Christ has ordained certain men to a ministerial priesthood to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross (1142, 1547, 1577).
BC says: Christ has ordained every believer to a holy and royal priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices, the praise of their lips, and lives yielded to God [1 Peter 2:5-10;Hebrews 13:15;Romans 12:1].

(31)RC says: The Sacrifice of the Mass is the sacrifice of the cross (1085, 1365-1367)...Only the manner in which it is offered is different (1367).
BC says: The sacrifice of the cross is a historical event. It occurred once, approximately 2000 years ago, outside Jerusalem [Mark 15:21-41].

(32)RC says: The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass (1323, 1382).
BC says: The sacrifice of the cross is FINISHED [John 19:30].

(33)RC says: The Mass makes Christ present in His death and victimhood (1353, 1362, 1364, 1367, 1409).
BC says: Christ cannot be made present in His death and victimhood, for He has risen and is alive forevermore [Revelation 1:17-18;Romans 6:9-10].

(34) RC says: At each Mass, the priest re-presents to the Father the sacrifice of Christ (1354, 1357).
BC says: Christ presented the sacrifice of Himself to the Father "once at the consummation of the ages" [Hebrews 9:24-28].

(35) RC says: The Mass is an unbloody sacrifice which atones for the sins of the living and the dead (1367, 1371, 1414).
BC says: Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins [Leviticus 17:11;Hebrews 9:22].

(36)RC says: Each sacrifice of the Mass appeases God's wrath against sin (1371, 1414).
BC says: The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God's wrath against sin [Hebrews 10:12-18].

(37)RC says: The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the sacrifice of the Mass (1366, 1407).
BC says: Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through Faith [Ephesians 1:3-14].

(38)RC says: The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the sacrifice of the Mass (1364, 1405, 1846).
BC says: The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross [Ephesians 1:7;Hebrews 1:3].

(39)RC says: The Church is to continue the sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of the world (1323, 1382, 1405, 1407).
BC says: The Church is to proclaim the Lord's death for the salvation of the world [1 Corinthians 11:26].

(40)RC says: Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception--490-492).
BC says: Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin [Psalm 51:5;Romans 5:12].

(41)RC says: Mary, "the All-Holy," lived a perfectly sinless life (411, 493).
BC says: Mary was a sinner; God alone is holy [Luke 18:19;Romans 3:23;Revelation 15:4].

(42)RC says: Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ (486-511).
BC says: Mary was a virgin until the birth of Christ [Matthew 1:25;13:55-56;Psalm 69:8].

(43)RC says: Mary is the Mother of God (963, 971, 2677).
BC says: Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus [John 2:1].

(44)RC says: Mary is the Mother of the Church (963, 975).
BC says: Mary is a member of the church [Acts 1:14;1 Corinthians 12:13, 27].

(45)RC says: Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participated with Christ in the painful act of redemption (618, 964, 968, 970).
BC says: Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin [1 Peter 1:18-19].

(46)RC says: At the end of her life, Mary was assumed body and soul into heaven (966, 974).
BC says: Upon her death, Mary's body returned to dust [Genesis 3:19].

(47)RC says: Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (968-970).
BC says: Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions [1 Timothy 2:5;John 14:13-14;1 Peter 5:7].

(48)RC says: We should entrust ourselves to Mary, surrendering "'the hour of our death'" wholly to her care" (2677).
BC says: We should entrust ourselves to the Lord jesus, surrendering the hour of our death wholly to His care [Romans 10:13;Acts 4:12].

(49)RC says: God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth (966)...She is to be praised with special devotion (971, 2675).
BC says: The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth [Psalm 148:13]...God commands, "you shall have no other gods before Me" [Exodus:20:3].

(50)RC says: Peter was head of the apostles (552, 765, 880).
BC says: Christ was the head of the apostles [John 13:13].

(51)RC says: The bishops are the successors of the apostles (861-862, 938).
BC says: The apostles had no successors, for to succeed them one needed to be a witness of Christ's resurrection [Acts 1:21-22].

(52)RC says: The bishops, with the Pope as their head, rule the universal church (883, 894-896).
BC says: Christ, the head of the body, rules the universal church [Colossians 1:18].

(53)RC says: God has entrusted revelation to the Roman Catholic bishops (81, 86).
BC says: God has entrusted revelation to the saints [Jude 3].

(54)RC says: The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church (85-87).
BC says: The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the Church [John 14:26;16:13;1 John 2:27].

(55)RC says: The Magisterium is the infallible interpreter of Scripture (890-891, 2034-2035).
BC says: Scripture is the only infallible interpreter of Scripture [Acts 17:11].

(56)RC says: The Pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching (891).
BC says: God alone is infallible [Numbers 23:19].

(57)RC says: The Magisterium alone has the ability and the right to interpret Scripture (85, 100, 939).
BC says: Every Christian, aided by the Holy Spirit, has the ability and the right to interpret Scripture [Acts 17:11;1 Corinthians 2:12-16].

(58)RC says: Scripture is to be interpreted in the sense in which it has been defined by the Magisterium (113, 119).
BC says: Scripture must be interpreted in the original sense intended by the Holy Spirit [2 Peter 3:14-16].

(59)RC says: The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation (66, 88, 2035, 2051).
BC says: No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture [1 Corinthians 4:6;Proverbs 30:6].

(60)RC says: Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God (81, 85, 97, 182)
BC says: Scripture is the Word of God [John 10:35;2 Timothy 3:16-17;2 Peter 1:20-21]...Tradition is the words of menn [Mark 7:1-13].

(61)RC says: Scripture and Tradition together are the Church's supreme rule of faith (80, 82).
BC says: Scripture is the Church's rule of faith [Mark 7:7-13;2 Timothy 3:16-17].

This is only a partial list.

Damiano

[KnightofChrist]

(56)RC says: The Pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching (891).
BC says: God alone is infallible [Numbers 23:19].

God [b]alone[/b] is infallible? How then do you believe in the infallibility of the Holy Bible and whose who wrote it?

[Arpy]

[quote name='Arpy' date='04 February 2010 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1265335955' post='2051394']
I look forward to your rebuttal of my points.
[/quote]

[Damiano]

***What points?

Damiano