What Divides Muslims And Christians

[dominicansoul]

[quote]What Divides Muslims and Christians[/quote]

[quote name='Winchester' date='13 December 2009 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1260754810' post='2019977']
A wall would help.
[/quote]

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hassan' date='22 December 2009 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1261527067' post='2024769']
A cookie is just a cookie, but a newton is fruit and cake.
[/quote]
I couldn't agree more.

[Mark of the Cross]

[img]http://www.websmileys.com/sm/fam/fam24.gif[/img] [img]http://dclips.fundraw.com/400dir/wall.gif[/img] [img]http://www.websmileys.com/sm/fam/fam24.gif[/img]

Edited December 28, 2009 by Mark of the Cross

[reyb]

Let us discussed this thing with all honesty, first False Christian and False Muslim is one and the same. False Christians and False Muslim are both believers of God thru their own understanding to their accepted scriptures, the Holy Bible and the Holy Quran. They are both ‘false believers of God’ - although unknowingly and unintentionally - because they learn to put their faith to their own ‘interpretation’ to these scriptures. Second, True Christians and True Muslim is the one and the same too – since a man cannot have peace with God, which is the meaning of Islam, unless he is a true Christian and both have seen the Christ -the one and only Christ who is not the historical Jesus.

To all who called themselves ‘Christians’ -- I have a question - Do you accept that Prophet Moses is a Christian? If yes, do you think he is a Trinitarian? If not, do you think a man can be a true believer of God if he is not a Christian?

and

To all who called themselves ‘Muslim’ – my question is --in what way, Prophet Moses becomes an Islam?

[reyb]

[quote name='mortify' date='12 December 2009 - 06:27 PM' timestamp='1260660468' post='2019372']
Most would say it's the Trinity, I would say it's the fact that Christ was crucified:

[img]http://www.eportfolio.lagcc.cuny.edu/ePortfolios/Intermediate/Juan_PerezREV/IMAGES/Velazquez.jpg[/img]


The entire Christian religion centers around the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, while the Qur'an explicitly rejects that it ever happened:
[color="#8B0000"]
[i][b]"That they [color="#FF0000"](=the Jews)[/color] said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but [u]they killed him not, nor crucified him[/u], but so it was [u]made to appear[/u] to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for [u]of a surety they killed him not[/u]: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise[/b][/i][/color]
Quran Surah An-Nissa (4) aya 157-158
-------------------

Any serious discussion between Christians and Muslims must begin with this event, for if it didn't happen our Christian faith is in vain, and if it did the Qur'an is in error.
[/quote]

Is this 'Death and Resurrection of Jesus' a historical event?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='reyb' date='31 December 2009 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1262284753' post='2027845']
Is this 'Death and Resurrection of Jesus' a historical event?
[/quote]
Yes.

[reyb]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='04 January 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1262638839' post='2029594']
Yes.
[/quote]

In many instances, I asked this question and I got the same result. This 'historical death and resurrection of Jesus Christ more or less 2000 years ago' is just a belief or an interpretation to the scripture. May question is this - who told you that it is a 'historical event'?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='reyb' date='11 January 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1263220128' post='2034664']
In many instances, I asked this question and I got the same result. This 'historical death and resurrection of Jesus Christ more or less 2000 years ago' is just a belief or an interpretation to the scripture. May question is this - who told you that it is a 'historical event'?
[/quote]
Instead of answering your question, which really will get nowhere, let me ask you this:

Do you believe that, say, Gallileo was a real person? Did he live and die and do all the things we hear he did? Why do you believe that? Who told you? What evidence do you have?

Moving further back, how about Polycarp of Smyrna? Was he real, or just invented as a myth for the faithful?

How about Nero? Real, or just a demonized legend?

What about Plato? Moses? Abraham?

[philbo]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='11 January 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1263234599' post='2034902']
Instead of answering your question, which really will get nowhere, let me ask you this:

Do you believe that, say, Gallileo was a real person? Did he live and die and do all the things we hear he did? Why do you believe that? Who told you? What evidence do you have?[/quote]
Gallileo wrote lots of stuff while he was alive - some of these documents are in the British Library. Lots of people wrote about Gallileo while he was still alive.

[quote name='havok579257' date='11 January 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1263245776' post='2035017']
Moving further back, how about Polycarp of Smyrna? Was he real, or just invented as a myth for the faithful?
[/quote]
No idea.. not heard of him (her?) before

[quote name='havok579257' date='11 January 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1263245776' post='2035017']
How about Nero? Real, or just a demonized legend?
[/quote]
Again, people at the time wrote about Nero - there's even coins with his head on.

[quote name='havok579257' date='11 January 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1263245776' post='2035017']
What about Plato? Moses? Abraham?
[/quote]
Plato? Yes. Moses/Abraham... who knows?

Jesus?

..well, who wrote about him when he was alive?

[Mark of the Cross]

Jesus wrote lots of stuff too. The difference being that what Jesus wrote makes profound sense. Even if we were to not accept the 'Son of God part'. Living by his teachings would make the world a better place and life much more enjoyable. Also I think there is a considerable amount of archaeological evidence that such a man did live. It is illogical to think that on the one hand that he would make profound teachings on how to live but at the same time be out of his mind in making claims about God. Schizophrenics are obviously seen for what they are. Jesus addressed 5000 men plus woman and children on one occasion. How many would he have addressed in his ministry in total. These people have passed the history down from generation to generation not to mention manuscripts and the supernatural document of all documents 'The Holy Bible' If this is not sufficient to believe then we cannot believe anything. Even our own existence would be in question. And that's only from a general perspective. Many of us commonly have personal experiences of Jesus as well.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Mark of the Cross

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='philbo' date='11 January 2010 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1263247899' post='2035035']
Gallileo wrote lots of stuff while he was alive - some of these documents are in the British Library. Lots of people wrote about Gallileo while he was still alive.


No idea.. not heard of him (her?) before


Again, people at the time wrote about Nero - there's even coins with his head on.


Plato? Yes. Moses/Abraham... who knows?

Jesus?

..well, who wrote about him when he was alive?
[/quote]
Quoted the wrong person.


My point is that their existence is based on some degree of evidence, just as is the existence of Christ. You happen to accept the evidence for many demonstrably real people. I accept the evidence for Jesus Christ.

[Guadalupe23]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='12 December 2009 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1260660567' post='2019374']
That's interesting Mortify!

I didn't know that muslims didn't believe that Christ was crucified.
[/quote]


Ditto....

[Mark of the Cross]

[indent]

[/indent]This is from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus%27_death"]wikipedia[/url]. I know many will say it's unreliable but it's an interesting take on the subject.
[quote][indent]The denial, furthermore, is in perfect agreement with the logic ofthe Qur’an. The Biblical stories reproduced in it (e.g., Job, Moses,Joseph etc.) and the episodes relating to the history of the beginningof Islam demonstrate that it is "God's practice" (sunnat Allah) to makefaith triumph finally over the forces of evil and adversity. "So trulywith hardship comes ease", (XCIV, 5, 6). For Jesus to die on the crosswould have meant the triumph of his executioners; but the Quran assertsthat they undoubtedly failed: “Assuredly God will defend those whobelieve”; (XXII, 49). He confounds the plots of the enemies of Christ(III, 54).

[/indent]On the interpretation of the minority of Muslims who accept the crucifixion, Mahmoud Ayoub for example states:

[indent]The Qur'an is not here speaking about a man, righteous and wrongedthough he may be, but about the Word of God who was sent to earth andreturned to God. Thus the denial of killing of Jesus is a denial of thepower of men to vanquish and destroy the divine Word, which is for evervictorious.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus%27_death#cite_note-2"][3][/url][/sup]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus%27_death#cite_note-2"]While most [/url][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus"]Western Scholars[/url][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus%27_death#cite_note-Crossan.2C_John_Dominic_1995_p._145-0"][1][/url][/sup], Jews[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus%27_death#cite_note-3"][4][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Jesus%27_death#cite_note-4"][5][/url][/sup]and Christians believe Jesus died, some Muslims believe he was raisedto Heaven without being put on the cross and God transformed anotherperson to appear exactly like Jesus who was crucified instead of Jesus.Jesus ascended bodily to Heaven, being in a state of stasis until his [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_coming"]Second coming[/url] in the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_days"]End days[/url].

[/indent][/quote][indent]

[/indent]

[philbo]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 January 2010 - 03:21 AM' timestamp='1263262863' post='2035124']
Quoted the wrong person.
[/quote]
Oops.. mea culpa - the problem with copy & paste is remembering to copy

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='12 January 2010 - 03:21 AM' timestamp='1263262863' post='2035124']
My point is that their existence is based on some degree of evidence, just as is the existence of Christ. You happen to accept the evidence for many demonstrably real people. I accept the evidence for Jesus Christ.
[/quote]
You did fail to answer the question, though: who did write about Jesus when he was alive?

[Winchester]

[quote name='philbo' date='11 January 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1263247899' post='2035035']
Again, people at the time wrote about Nero - there's even coins with his head on.

[/quote]
There are also coins with "George Washington" on them. As if this man ever existed.