Is Islam A Religion Of Truth, Peace And Love Or Not?

[Winchester]

[quote name='Varg' date='12 December 2009 - 11:06 AM' timestamp='1260633992' post='2019090']
Because all Muslims are terrorists, right?

No.
[/quote]
No, but apparently, we mustn't joke about Muslims. Everyone else is fair game. Why do you care, atheist?

[Winchester]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='12 December 2009 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1260634933' post='2019096']
There are several billion people in the world -- to wit, any Moslem [of course], Hindu, Buddhist, animist, atheist, Jew -- in fact, anyone who is not a Christian -- who would dispute that with you. It seems a very arrogant attitude. I don't doubt for an instant that there is a God, but I wouldn't have the hubris to maintain that there is only one way to acknowledge Him, however He may be or how we can perceive him.
[/quote]
That's your creed, not ours. Apparently "hubris" only works one way.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='Winchester' date='12 December 2009 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1260635110' post='2019100']
That's your creed, not ours. Apparently "hubris" only works one way.
[/quote]

There are religions which, while they feel they have a correct belief, do not think that everyone else is wrong. Both Islam and Christianity are protelyzing religions, and if not similar theologically, both believe that they each have a monopoly on "truth" and an obligation to force it on everyone else. If that isn't hubris, I don't know what is.

I often wonder: if Jesus returned tomorrow, whether he would ask "Who is this Paul fellow and why aren't all you "Christians" who want to live in imitation of me not Torah-observant Jews? I was".

[Varg]

[quote name='Winchester' date='12 December 2009 - 11:23 AM' timestamp='1260635021' post='2019098']
No, but apparently, we mustn't joke about Muslims. Everyone else is fair game. Why do you care, atheist?
[/quote]
Sorry for not finding nearly 3, 000 people burning to death in a building particularly funny.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='12 December 2009 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1260636198' post='2019110']
There are religions which, while they feel they have a correct belief, do not think that everyone else is wrong. Both Islam and Christianity are protelyzing religions[/quote]
That would be their creed. And it's not logical to state: "This person is God, but if you deny that, you're right." You're still applying your creed to everyone else. That's ethnocentrism. For shame. You are stating your creed is right, but ours is wrong. That's the same thing you're clucking your tongue at us for.

[quote]a monopoly on "truth" and an obligation to force it on everyone else.[/quote]
And where in our dogma does is say we can/must "force" conversions?

[quote] If that isn't hubris, [i]I don't know what is[/i].[/quote]
That's the most insightful thing you've said.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='12 December 2009 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1260634933' post='2019096']
There are several billion people in the world -- to wit, any Moslem [of course], Hindu, Buddhist, animist, atheist, Jew -- in fact, anyone who is not a Christian -- who would dispute that with you. It seems a very arrogant attitude. I don't doubt for an instant that there is a God, but I wouldn't have the hubris to maintain that there is only one way to acknowledge Him, however He may be or how we can perceive him.
[/quote]

Well, Jesus did claim that there is only one way to God.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Varg' date='12 December 2009 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1260636472' post='2019115']
Sorry for not finding nearly 3, 000 people burning to death in a building particularly funny.
[/quote]
That wasn't what you opposed about it. You opposed the "insult" to Muslims. You didn't mention any victims. If you're going to be self-righteous at least [i]try [/i]to be good at it.

[Varg]

[quote name='Winchester' date='12 December 2009 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1260636735' post='2019119']
If you're going to be self-righteous at least [i]try [/i]to be good at it.
[/quote]Could you give some tips? You're an expert.

If someone said "ooh look, 220 people were burned to death in Montségur, all Catholics must like burning people!" I'd correct them, too.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Varg

[Winchester]

[quote name='Varg' date='12 December 2009 - 11:53 AM' timestamp='1260636808' post='2019120']
Could you give some tips? You're an expert.
[/quote]
You'll need to show an example of me being self-righteous. Generally, I'm sardonic. I don't use myself as an example of righteousness.

[Varg]

[quote name='Winchester' date='12 December 2009 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1260636898' post='2019122']
You'll need to show an example of me being self-righteous. Generally, I'm sardonic. I don't use myself as an example of righteousness.
[/quote]
Weeeell, you subscribe to the idea that everyone who has a different viewpoint to you is going to hell.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Varg

[Winchester]

[quote name='Varg' date='12 December 2009 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1260637171' post='2019127']
Weeeell, you subscribe to the idea that everyone who has a different viewpoint to you is going to hell.
[/quote]
It has nothing to do with [i]my [/i]viewpoint. It's not me. Thus it's not self-righteousness. I do believe I've explained my quite unacceptable reason for being Catholic.

The Church teaches that there is one way to Heaven, yes, but you need to look at all the teachings surrounding that.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Varg,

You've got the wrong guy, I'm the self-righteous one. I am also proud to be holier than thou.

So what do you need again? Tips?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' date='12 December 2009 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1260637171' post='2019127']
Weeeell, you subscribe to the idea that everyone who has a different viewpoint to you is going to hell.
[/quote]

There are quite a few canonized saints who had views of different issues that were contrary to my views, yet I hold that those saints are certainly in heaven.

[mortify]

[quote name='Antigonos' date='12 December 2009 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1260634933' post='2019096']
There are several billion people in the world -- to wit, any Moslem [of course], Hindu, Buddhist, animist, atheist, Jew -- in fact, anyone who is not a Christian -- who would dispute that with you. It seems a very arrogant attitude. I don't doubt for an instant that there is a God, but I wouldn't have the hubris to maintain that there is only one way to acknowledge Him, however He may be or how we can perceive him.
[/quote]

It's only hubris if you adopt a naturalist worldview, since man can know very little about God through his natural powers. But the reality is God has made Himself known supernaturally, through revelation and grace, and so acknowledging what God has revealed is not hubris but humility, since confirming our will to the Divine Will requires an act of humility.

[HisChildForever]

Mortify, can you please visit my "Islam and Homosexuality" thread? As a former Muslim, I am confident that you can answer my questions (whereas our Muslim posters seem to be avoiding them). Thanks!