Why Are You A Christian?

[Hussain]

[quote name='mortify' date='11 December 2009 - 02:43 AM' timestamp='1260513828' post='2018254']
Is it rational to believe a man travelled from Mecca to Jerusalem and finally to Heaven on a horse with a female face, and all this within a blink of an eye? Or do you believe it on the basis of who was saying it?
[/quote]

There are accounts of where the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) related to the Quraysh what caravans were travelling on the way from Mecca to Jerusalem, he related what the city looked like with accurate detail, and when the caravans returned to Mecca his position was reaffirmed to have been accurate.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Pomak' date='11 December 2009 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1260515236' post='2018264']
Indeed it is, because after that journey he came back [b]with information that no man could know.[/b]
[/quote]

And yet you discredit the Holy Trinity because we explain it surpasses human understanding.

[Hussain]

[quote name='mortify' date='11 December 2009 - 02:35 AM' timestamp='1260513301' post='2018251']
How can you reject Christianity if you don't know what we believe? We do not believe that His humanity = Divinity, as you suggest when you ask whether material things like hair and nails were Divine. God is a Spirit, i.e immaterial, and therefore He can't be confused with created things, that would be pantheism.
[/quote]

Reason I asked was because of the many different explanations provided to me by Christians, and I have even heard different explanations from Catholics. I asked to know [i]your [/i]position. Your explanation is also different from some I heard, and read. As for your first question, how can half the members here reject Islam if they do not know what Muslims think of Jesus? Most do not know that Muslims do not believe he died.

[quote]
[b]What we believe is this: Jesus is a Divine Person with *two* *distinct* though perfectly *united* natures, one human the other Divine. Thus He really possessed a flesh and could experience what other humans experience, i.e. hunger, thirst, pain, etc. But He is also truly Divine, and therefore He could forgive people their sins, perform miracles by His own power, and rightfully claim to the same honor that is given to the Father, which would be shirk if He were not who He claimed to be.[/b]





His Divine nature was fully there but He took on the *role* of a servant. To use an analogy, when you close your eyes you still possess the power to see even though you willingly decide not to use the power of sight.


You are thinking in human terms. For a human to become a father time must elapse, the boy must first mature into a man, and then the man must find a spouse. But God is beyond time, He is pure Act and there is no change in God, so there was no "beginning"... there was no time when the Son did not exist. The Son *eternally* proceeds from the Father, and thus both Persons are eternal, always existing simultaneously, and this goes the same for the Holy Spirit.



Say you have three people. All three people share a *similar* human nature, but they are three different entities because each possesses their own independent and separate human nature. In other words, all three persons have the power to use an intellect, but each has their own separate intellect, their own separate will, there own separate memory, etc. and thus we say they are three separate people, or three separate entities. But this is not true of the Trinity. All Three Persons [i]do not [/i]share similar though independent natures, instead they all *possess* the SAME Divine Nature. In other words, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all possess the SAME Divine Will (again, it's not three Wills that are in accord with eachother, but the SAME Will), they possess the SAME knowledge, etc. and thus although they are three Persons, They are Bearers of the SAME Nature and therefore *ONE IN BEING*. This is why the Trinity is a form of Monotheism and not Polytheism.


Glory be to Christ, Amen.
[/quote]
The bold contradicts an All-Knowing God understanding. I believe God knows everything, why does He need to be wrapped in flesh to 'experience'humanity? Didn't He create humans?

As for the rest, did God confine Himself to a created medium? Did he leave a place where there is no time and space and descended to a place where he is confined by time and place? Please bear in mind, I am not making any conclusions, just trying to understand your viewpoint. You will need to explain what you mean when you say Jesus is divine, was He 'possessed' by a divine spirit? Excuse my redundancy, I just want a clearer picture.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Hussain

[Hussain]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='11 December 2009 - 03:09 AM' timestamp='1260515341' post='2018266']
And yet you discredit the Holy Trinity because we explain it surpasses human understanding.
[/quote]

Actually refer to my post. I believe Pomak may have been referring to those accounts. Though I cannot speak for him, he will probably have to clarify.

[Pomak]

[quote name='HisChildForever' date='11 December 2009 - 06:09 PM' timestamp='1260515341' post='2018266']
And yet you discredit the Holy Trinity because we explain it surpasses human understanding.
[/quote]

Ok lets make a comparison.

scenario A-Trinity
belief in trinity because god said so. No real way to prove that any of it is true. It just stays as a doctrinal argument

Scenario B- Miraj
Belief in the mirah because the prophet of god said it happened. After which he made predictions(prophesies) that were not possible by any normal person. Also there is a practical reason for the miraj, that being the undisputed(amoungst muslims) accention of the prophet to a higher level than the angel Gabriel.

Both practical and rational, that is the reasons why I believe this is logical.

But I am going to leave it here, because I do not wish to derail this thread. Reply if you must but this will be my last post on our exchange.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Pomak

[MissyP89]

To the original question:

I am a Christian because I recognized myself to be directionless without God's love and mercy to guide me. I am a Catholic because I believe the love and mercy of God is most fully present in the Church, through the Sacraments.

[Nihil Obstat]

Have any of you guys read the Athanasian Creed?

It's rather long, so read it or not if you're interested, but I think it's a beautiful explanation of the Trinity.


[quote]1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.[/quote]

[Brother Adam]

Because Jesus is God.

[Brother Adam]

Chesteron's quote is best though -

"The difficulty of explaining "why I am Catholic" is that there are ten thousand reasons all amounting to one reason: that Catholicism is true." - G.K. Chesterton

[organwerke]

Because Jesus is my God, my Saviour, my Beloved...and, even if I Know I won't never love Him enough, I' d like to use simply Mother Theresa's words: Jesus is my All in all.

[Winchester]

Because I like being right.

[txdinghysailor]

cuz Christians get all the hot girls.

[Jaime]

[quote name='txdinghysailor' date='11 December 2009 - 02:04 PM' timestamp='1260558254' post='2018527']
cuz Christians get all the hot girls.
[/quote]

When you have over a billion members, you're gonna get a moron once in a while.

[Winchester]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='11 December 2009 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1260559125' post='2018540']
When you have over a billion members, you're gonna get a moron once in a while.
[/quote]
Right between the eyes!

[MIKolbe]

Because it is true.