HisChildForever Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) Edited as per request. Edited December 10, 2009 by HisChildForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Oh my gosh, Maggie, I meant to give you a +1 and my finger slipped. I'm sorry! Somebody give her two +1s for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='Maggie' date='10 December 2009 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1260481776' post='2017827'] The problem I think is that your approach (and the approach of the others) seems to lack the sweetness of the Gospel. No one has ever been converted by "the hard facts of life." [/quote] Wrong, and wrong to live as a Christian to live as Christ to covert to live out that life is to live the Cross, the hardest fact of life. It is good to recall and be blessed by the sweet and gentle Jesus but far to many times is the Cross, the hard facts of reality are forgotten. Truth is often like the Cross, painful, hard, not easy but absolutely necessary for the salvation of souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extempers Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I don't think I've said anything in anger or made my posts to sound in such a way. Ahh, words cannot express the emotion of the person typing I guess. I think all of you should go make a Muslim friend who knows his/her religion. Online debates will get you nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' date='10 December 2009 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1260481915' post='2017831'] Oh my gosh, Maggie, I meant to give you a +1 and my finger slipped. I'm sorry! Somebody give her two +1s for me? [/quote] That's okay! A good example for we Christians w/ regard to this issue is St. Francis. Our diocesan newspaper had an article about his encounter with the sultan of Egypt: [quote]While thousands of Christian soldiers took up arms against Muslims, one person among them followed his heart and the example of Christ. He sought a way toward peace and understanding through dialogue with Malik-al-Kamil, the sultan of Egypt. St. Francis of Assisi’s initial goal was to convert the sultan to Christianity or to become a martyr while trying. ... The fighting was terrible and Francis had rightly predicted the Christians would ultimately lose the battle. Sickened by his fellow Christians’ violent behavior, Francis decided to visit the sultan. Though mystery surrounds how he gained admittance, it is widely believed that Francis and Brother Illuminato were thought to be Christian wise men by the sultan’s guards. ... “We know he did not insult their prophet or religion, but talked about why he is a Christian and why people find the right way to God. We know he didn’t insult the prophet or he wouldn’t have come out of there alive,” Father Cusato said. “The brotherhood was God’s most beautiful creation and he saw the Muslim as his brother, too. It was the first real dialogue between Christians and Muslims,” Father McCreary said.[/quote] [url="http://www.catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=21816"]Full article.[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommas_boy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1260482304' post='2017843'] I don't think I've said anything in anger or made my posts to sound in such a way. Ahh, words cannot express the emotion of the person typing I guess. I think all of you should go make a Muslim friend who knows his/her religion. Online debates will get you nowhere. [/quote] Action failed: You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='MissyP89' date='10 December 2009 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1260480323' post='2017802'] I stand by the adage that flies go to honey before vinegar, but that's just me. If you told my best friend that his denomination was a vile perversion of Truth or similarly, that he was a heretic, he'd close his heart to you immediately. I'm out to speak Truth and do so unequivocally, but I also do so in a way that will avoid pushing them away from the Gospel. :shrug: [/quote] This [quote name='Maggie' date='10 December 2009 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1260481776' post='2017827'] The problem I think is that your approach (and the approach of the others) seems to lack the sweetness of the Gospel. No one has ever been converted by "the hard facts of life." There are Protestants who make this mistake and come around to my alma mater every year to explain to the students that they are damned to burn for eternity unless they pray the Salvation Prayer. Needless to say they meet little success and much ridicule, which of course they attribute to being "persecuted for the sake of the Name," when really the derision has nothing to do with Jesus and everything to do with their presentation of His message. People are converted by the joy that is promised to them, the promise of new life in Christ, and then they accept the hard words as part of the path they must take. Your posts to our Muslim visitors are motivated by love for them, I have no doubt, but you make the love easy to miss... and that is the problem... [/quote] and this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1260482146' post='2017840'] Wrong, and wrong to live as a Christian to live as Christ to covert to live out that life is to live the Cross, the hardest fact of life. It is good to recall and be blessed by the sweet and gentle Jesus but far to many times is the Cross, the hard facts of reality are forgotten. Truth is often like the Cross, painful, hard, not easy but absolutely necessary for the salvation of souls. [/quote] You know, I'm still unclear as to why some Catholics are defending the Muslims. I mean, they DID refer to us as "infidels," right? And they DID say Islam will "dominate" the world, right? Can you please explain this to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picchick Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 There is a priest I know who preaches fire and brimstone at every homily without fail. And, it is depressing. Cold hard facts work some of the time. There are people out there who need to hear the truth no matter how much it hurts. But they don't need to hear it every single time you preach, post, or talk. People need to know that they are improving at something or at least that there is hope. The truth does not always need to be hard and painful. The truth can also be sweet and gentle. There is a time and place for it all. You can preach the "hard facts" and then say something hopeful without softening the facts. Just my thoughts. Meg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extempers Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='09 December 2009 - 09:24 PM' timestamp='1260411872' post='2017151'] How about you not shrug off the Muslim celebrations of 911? [/quote] You must have not read much on this as it's been refuted several times over. Even wikipedia has something somewhat truthful on it regarding this (if you know Islam and read the entries, you'll understand my surprise) Annette Krüger Spitta of the ARD's (German public broadcasting) TV magazine Panorama states that footage not aired shows that the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem is quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering (Nawal Abdel Fatah) stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward.[24] [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1260482639' post='2017851'] You know, I'm still unclear as to why some Catholics are defending the Muslims. I mean, they DID refer to us as "infidels," right? And they DID say Islam will "dominate" the world, right? Can you please explain this to me? [/quote] And the highest leaders of your Church have said exactly those same words and then some and then ACTED UPON IT, so let's chill on taking the moral high ground As for for some of the posts, I don't like them and they are lacking hikmah. Edited December 10, 2009 by extempers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1260482639' post='2017851'] You know, I'm still unclear as to why some Catholics are defending the Muslims. I mean, they DID refer to us as "infidels," right? And they DID say Islam will "dominate" the world, right? Can you please explain this to me? [/quote] Its called Mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='picchick' date='10 December 2009 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1260482648' post='2017852'] There is a priest I know who preaches fire and brimstone at every homily without fail. And, it is depressing. Cold hard facts work some of the time. There are people out there who need to hear the truth no matter how much it hurts. But they don't need to hear it every single time you preach, post, or talk. People need to know that they are improving at something or at least that there is hope. The truth does not always need to be hard and painful. The truth can also be sweet and gentle. There is a time and place for it all. You can preach the "hard facts" and then say something hopeful without softening the facts. Just my thoughts. Meg [/quote] I have never had any one of the priests at my parish preach about hell. Your priest is rare, and a blessing many are too afraid or for whatever reason only preach happy happy joy joys, some are even forbidden by their bishop to teach fire and brimstone. Over all far too many today want a Christ without a Cross. Happy Jesus is just easier to handle. I am not stating the joys and goodness of the Gospel should be put aside only that the Cross and the hard facts that come with it are not forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extempers Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 And wait, that first quote just popped up on reply? I really don't want to respond to anything in under the Islamic veil....I hope that's not from there gah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1260482639' post='2017851'] You know, I'm still unclear as to why some Catholics are defending the Muslims. I mean, they DID refer to us as "infidels," right? And they DID say Islam will "dominate" the world, right? Can you please explain this to me? [/quote] Is it Muslims being attacked/defended here, or Islam. You keep going back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='10 December 2009 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1260482639' post='2017851'] You know, I'm still unclear as to why some Catholics are defending the Muslims. I mean, they DID refer to us as "infidels," right? And they DID say Islam will "dominate" the world, right? Can you please explain this to me? [/quote] Well to be fair we do call them heretics and suggest that they might be dam[i][/i]ned to eternal torment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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