Muslims On Flight Cause Panic

[Hussain]

Apotheon, I have been reading your posts, and have a feeling that you have something against Muslims in general. Can you outline what you think about all Muslims, so we can get a clearer picture of where you're coming from? And give us reasons as to why you feel as such? e.g did you have a horrible Muslim boss, did a Muslim lover break your heart, etc. ?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='bhrhrahraa' date='10 December 2009 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1260464708' post='2017539']
How is that even relevant to any of this? I'm the believer and you're the infidel.
[/quote]

You are pretty much reinforcing what Apo, KoC, and I have been saying about Islam for the past few weeks.

Edited December 10, 2009 by HisChildForever

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='10 December 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1260468905' post='2017594']
It is unlikely that a person will find any statistics on the number of terrorist attacks perpetrated by Muslims, because to collect information of that kind in Western countries is held to be politically incorrect.
[/quote]

Yet there are statistics for the percentages in Islam that support terrorist attacks...


[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='17 November 2009 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1258491876' post='2004369']
[url="http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/05/how-many-islamists"]SOURCE[/url]

[b]Hamas victory:[/b] In Palestinian Authority elections, the Islamist terrorist group Hamas won 44 percent of the popular vote. (January 26, 2006)

[b]Margaret Nydell:[/b] "The militant Muslim groups cannot represent even 1 percent of Muslims in the United States (that would be 50,000) or the world (that would be 15 million). If that were true, we would be overrun with wild-eyed fanatics. Islamists who resort to violence add up to less than one tenth of 1 percent." (Understanding Arabs: A Guide for Modern Times, 4th ed., International Press, 2005, p. 104) Comment: Nydell makes the inexplicable mistake of equating Islamists with terrorists, as though all of the former are the latter. And this from a professor at Georgetown University. Some unsolicited advice for her: stick closer to linguistics, in which you got your degree, and stay clear away from politics.

[b]
Husain Haqqani, author of Pakistan:[/b] Between Mosque and Military (Washington, DC: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, 2005) writes on p. 1: "Pakistan's Islamists made their strongest showing in a general election during parliamentary polls held in October 2002, when they secured 11.1 percent of the popular vote."

[b]British polls:[/b] Two just-released opinion surveys of British Muslims suggest a very substantial Islamist percentage. Of the many questions asked, perhaps the most revealing in this regard is the one whether the respondent agrees that "Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end." An astounding 1/3rd of those asked did agree with this statement. (Anthony King, "One in four Muslims sympathises with motives of terrorists," The Daily Telegraph, July 23, 2005)

[b]John O'Sullivan:[/b] "Estimates of the number of (generally young male) Muslims who are actively sympathetic to Islamism are inevitably … speculative. The usual guess is that 15 percent of the Muslim population is sympathetic to Islamism and a much smaller percentage, say 4 percent, actively so." ("The Islamic Republic of Holland," National Review, July 18, 2005)

[b]Hisham Kabbani, head of Islamic Supreme Council of America:[/b] 5 to 10 percent of American Muslims are extremists. (Steven Vincent, "Where Are the Moderate Muslims?" The American Enterprise, April/May 2005, p. 27).

[b]Kamal Nawash, head, Free Muslims Against Terrorism:[/b] "as many as 50 percent of Muslims around the world support the goals of the extremists." ("O'Reilly Factor," Fox News Channel, Aug. 5, 2004)

[b]
Daniel Yankelovich, pollster:[/b] At one extreme of Muslim society "are the hate-America Islamist fundamentalists, who are the most militant and totalitarian. The magnitude and influence of this group varies enormously. For example, in Indonesia this group has doubled, tripled, or quadrupled over the last few years. I would estimate that this group averages about 10% of all Muslims, with enormous variation from one Muslim country to another and particular strength in Arab nations." ("Cutting the Lifeline of Terror: What's Next After Iraq?" July 14, 2004, p. 20) (May 17, 2005)

[b]Jordanian elections:[/b] In the Jordanian parliamentary elections of 1989, the Muslim Brotherhood "attained 30 percent of the seats, in addition to independent Islamists who won 10 seats. This was the highest percentage of seats ever gained by Islamists in Jordan or anywhere else in the region." (Angel M. Rabasa, et al., The Muslim World After 9/11, Santa Monica: RAND, 2004, p. 116)

[b]B Raman, former head of counter-terrorism for Indian intelligence, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW):[/b] The U.S. government should focus on reforming Islamist madrasas; there are currently up to one million madrasas in Pakistan , a minority of which, perhaps 15 percent, indoctrinate their pupils with Islamist vitriol and militancy. ("Expert tells US to focus on Pak madrasas," Times of India, October 31, 2003)

[b]Israeli elections:[/b] "The northern faction of the fundamentalist Islamic Movement retained its firm control on [the Israeli Arab town of] Umm el-Fahm … in local elections that were otherwise marked by fragmentation in the Arab sector. The movement's candidate in Umm el-Fahm, Sheikh Hashem Abdel Rahman, won 75 percent of the votes compared to around 23% for Said Agbariya, who headed a coalition of predominantly secular political groups." (David Rudge, "Strong Islamic sentiment drives Arab elections," The Jerusalem Post, October 30, 2003)

[b]
Indonesian data:[/b] "Survey and election results show that the number of Islamists, Muslims who want an Islamic state, is no more than 15 percent of the total Indonesian Muslim population of 200 million. The remaining 85 percent are moderately or strongly opposed to an Islamic state. Most important and least recognized in the current climate of fear in the non-Muslim world, Islamism as a political ideology appears to be losing ground in Indonesia, not gaining it." (R. William Liddle and Saiful Mujani, "The Real Face of Indonesian Islam," The New York Times, October 11, 2003)
[/quote]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' date='10 December 2009 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1260475224' post='2017738']
Yet there are statistics for the percentages in Islam that support terrorist attacks...
[/quote]

Those are clearly fabricated.

[extempers]

bhrhrahraa is not a member of MM and his/her opinions are his/her own.


And there is no doubt there is more blood on the hands of the fun loving Christians for the past 100 years than the Muslims.
Actually, I wonder how much further we can push this statistic.
Has there ever been a religion with as violent and bloodthirsty history as the Christians? How many wars have been declared in the name of Christ?
Has there EVER been a religion that has had as many wars against its own people? How many "christians" deaths were sanctioned by the Catholic Church?
I think Antartica is the only continent safe from Christian induced carnage.

Heck, if you consider state-sponsored terrorism, "accidents" and atrocities, then there's absolutely no comparison.

Do you have any idea how many Afghan weddings have been bombed? Woops, right?


Hillary Clinton recently went to Pakistan to speak to high profile women across Pakistan. She was expecting much love, but instead she got something else.
[b]One of the tv journalists said "You have had one 9/11, we have a 9/11 everyday!"[/b]


Next hypocritical argument against Islam please?

[Socrates]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1260479802' post='2017792']
bhrhrahraa is not a member of MM and his/her opinions are his/her own.


And there is no doubt there is more blood on the hands of the fun loving Christians for the past 100 years than the Muslims.
Actually, I wonder how much further we can push this statistic.
Has there ever been a religion with as violent and bloodthirsty history as the Christians? How many wars have been declared in the name of Christ?
Has there EVER been a religion that has had as many wars against its own people? How many "christians" deaths were sanctioned by the Catholic Church?
I think Antartica is the only continent safe from Christian induced carnage.

Heck, if you consider state-sponsored terrorism, "accidents" and atrocities, then there's absolutely no comparison.

Do you have any idea how many Afghan weddings have been bombed? Woops, right?


Hillary Clinton recently went to Pakistan to speak to high profile women across Pakistan. She was expecting much love, but instead she got something else.
[b]One of the tv journalists said "You have had one 9/11, we have a 9/11 everyday!"[/b]


Next hypocritical argument against Islam please?
[/quote]


Citations please?

[extempers]

[quote name='Socrates' date='10 December 2009 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1260493336' post='2017994']


Citations please?
[/quote]
Open a history book? I have made common knowledge statements that no need no verification for anyone who has a high school diploma.

But hey, I read this recently, so enjoy:
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_killed_in_the_past_30_years

[Socrates]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 08:27 PM' timestamp='1260494870' post='2018007']
Open a history book? I have made common knowledge statements that no need no verification for anyone who has a high school diploma.

But hey, I read this recently, so enjoy:
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/11/30/why_they_hate_us_ii_how_many_muslims_has_the_us_killed_in_the_past_30_years
[/quote]
I've got a B.A. in history, and I can tell you your comments are nonsense.

[extempers]

[quote name='Socrates' date='10 December 2009 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1260496178' post='2018022']
I've got a B.A. in history, and I can tell you your comments are nonsense.
[/quote]
Then let's talk. Unless you plan on playing the wars and massacres off on "ideology" and "atheism", there's no argument to be had.

[Socrates]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1260496390' post='2018024']
Then let's talk. Unless you plan on playing the wars and massacres off on "ideology" and "atheism", there's no argument to be had.
[/quote]
You're the one making these claims, so it's up to you to explain exactly what wars and massacres you're referring to. But if you're going to blame wars and atrocities committed on account of atheistic and secular ideologies (such as Communism and Nazism) on Christianity, then you have no argument, but are simply spouting anti-Christian nonsense.

[mortify]

Muslims ought to look at the violence committed by their own members, and in particular by their Rasul.

[extempers]

[quote name='Socrates' date='10 December 2009 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1260496678' post='2018029']
You're the one making these claims, so it's up to you to explain exactly what wars and massacres you're referring to. But if you're going to blame wars and atrocities committed on account of atheistic and secular ideologies (such as Communism and Nazism) on Christianity, then you have no argument, but are simply spouting anti-Christian nonsense.
[/quote]
Who is the technical sovereign of Great Britain? What is her title?
In whose name did the British declare war and whose name did they seek victory and protection?

What of the other European powers? King Leopold II's torture and massacre of 10 million while occupying Congo was just some ideological fad right?

And I'm sure we've both taken the same courses. Are you going to categorically claim there is no valid argument that Christianity was used for the base and spreading of Nazism?

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

Good luck with that.

It's funny, a Muslim who does something while mentioning God's name, oh yah, ISLAMIC TERRORISM, ISLAMIC WARS.
But the same standards cannot be applied to those that mention Christ's name and kill. Yes sir, totally different.
There's no political reason for current violence at all. No oppression, no domination, no DESPERATION that leads to vile actions. Just vilify an entire religion, it's so much easier.

[extempers]

[quote name='mortify' date='10 December 2009 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1260496886' post='2018031']
Muslims ought to look at the violence committed by their own members, and in particular by their Rasul.
[/quote]

I suggest doing some serious reading on the subject before making such mediocre and well-refuted claims.
Jihadwatch is not serious reading

Read Martin Ling's biography of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for reading.

Read the "Sealed Nectar" fully if you think you can handle serious reading

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 09:19 PM' timestamp='1260497991' post='2018043']
I suggest doing some serious reading on the subject before making such mediocre and well-refuted claims.
Jihadwatch is not serious reading

Read Martin Ling's biography of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) for reading.

Read the "Sealed Nectar" fully if you think you can handle serious reading
[/quote]

Robert Spencer is a brilliant man with outstanding credentials.

[b]ROBERT SPENCER is the director of Jihad Watch, a program of the David Horowitz Freedom Center, and the author of nine books on Islam and jihad, including the New York Times bestsellers The Truth About Muhammad and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades). Spencer is a weekly columnist for Human Events and FrontPage Magazine, and has led seminars on Islam and jihad for the United States Central Command, United States Army Command and General Staff College, the U.S. Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group, the FBI, the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and the U.S. intelligence community.

Spencer has also written eleven monographs and well over three hundred articles about jihad and Islamic terrorism. Along with the bestsellers The Truth About Muhammad (Regnery) and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (Regnery), he is the author of Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World's Fastest Growing Faith (Encounter); Onward Muslim Soldiers: How Jihad Still Threatens America and the West (Regnery); Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't (Regnery), a refutation of moral equivalence and call for all the beneficiaries and heirs of Judeo-Christian Western civilization, whatever their own religious or philosophical perspective may be, to defend it from the global jihad; and Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs (Regnery), an expose of how jihadist groups are advancing their agenda in the U.S. today by means other than terrorist attacks.. He is coauthor, with Daniel Ali, of Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics (Ascension), and editor of the essay collection The Myth of Islamic Tolerance: How Islamic Law Treats Non-Muslims (Prometheus). His latest book is The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran (Regnery). Spencer's books have been translated into many languages, including Spanish, Italian, Finnish, and Bahasa Indonesia.

Along with his weekly columns, Spencer has completed a weekly Qur'an commentary at Jihad Watch, Blogging the Qur'an, which has been translated into Czech, Danish, German and Italian. He is an Associate Fellow of the American Freedom Alliance and a contributing writer to Steven Emerson's Investigative Project on Terrorism. His articles on Islam and other topics have appeared in the New York Post, the Washington Times, the Dallas Morning News, Canada's National Post, Middle East Quarterly, WorldNet Daily, First Things, Insight in the News, National Review Online, and many other journals.

In addition to the seminars on Islam and jihad that Spencer has led for the United States Central Command, United States Army Command and General Staff College, a Department of Homeland Security task force, the FBI, branches of the Joint Terrorism Task Force, and the U.S. intelligence community, he has discussed jihad, Islam, and terrorism at a workshop sponsored by the U.S. State Department and the German Foreign Ministry. He has also appeared on the BBC, CNN, FoxNews, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC, C-Span, France24 and Croatia National Televison (HTV), as well as on numerous radio programs including Bill O'Reilly's Radio Factor, The Laura Ingraham Show, Bill Bennett's Morning in America, Michael Savage's Savage Nation, The Sean Hannity Show, The Alan Colmes Show, The G. Gordon Liddy Show, The Neal Boortz Show, The Michael Medved Show, The Michael Reagan Show, The Rusty Humphries Show, The Larry Elder Show, The Barbara Simpson Show, Vatican Radio, and many others.

Spencer (MA, Religious Studies, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) has been studying Islamic theology, law, and history in depth since 1980. As an Adjunct Fellow with the Free Congress Foundation in 2002 and 2003, he wrote a series of monographs on Islam that are still available from the Foundation: An Introduction to the Qur'an; Women and Islam; An Islamic Primer; Islam and the West; The Islamic Disinformation Lobby; Islam vs. Christianity; and Jihad in Context. More recently he has also written monographs for the David Horowitz Freedom Center: What Americans Need to Know About Jihad; The Violent Oppression of Women In Islam (with Phyllis Chesler); Islamic Leaders' Plan for Genocide; and Muslim Persecution of Christians.[/b]

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='extempers' date='10 December 2009 - 09:17 PM' timestamp='1260497861' post='2018041']
And I'm sure we've both taken the same courses. Are you going to categorically claim there is no valid argument that Christianity was used for the base and spreading of Nazism?

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
[/quote]
Look at Hitler's religious beliefs in the period of 1943-1945 and then say that he didn't use his "Christianity" as a simple means of appealing to the Germans and getting ahead in the political game.