Eucharist In The Hand?

[amarkich]

Bruce, this is the issue that basically illustrates why either Catholics are idol worshippers and are going to Hell or protestants are denying God in the Eucharist and are likewise going to be damned. One of the two is a sin against the First Commandment. I do not have time to comment (I will add more after Holy Week), but it is completely unable to be refuted that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ if one believes in the Bible (c.f., St. John vi, the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper: "This is My Body"; where is the symbol?). God bless.

[Bruce S]

[quote]why either Catholics are idol worshippers and are going to Hell or protestants are denying God in the Eucharist and are likewise going to be damned. [/quote]

Catholics are not going to hell for the statues. [They may have to endure some corrective lectures IN heaven ... grin, sort of like Purgatory plus]

Protestants are not going to hell for not having a BELIEF that the elements are symbolic.

Read Romans.

Paul pretty clearly deliniated what constituted salvation, and what the requirements are, didn't he?

PS: you made him a Saint, so I assume you agree with Paul's teachings...or do you? Don't throw James against Paul, it tends to negate Paul and make him WRONG and we can't have a biggie in the faith, wrong, now can we?

[willguy]

When amarkich refered to idol worship, I believe he/she was refering to our worship of the Eucharist. Either we are idol worshippers for calling a peice of bread God and worshiping it (no, not venerating, worshipping) or Protestants are denying one of the greatest and most accesible mysteries and miracles.

[Bruce S]

Don't get me started....argh.

Pray TO the INVISIBLE GOD and the UNSEEN Jesus, invite the Holy Spirit IN.

The Monstrance is just too...

Well, I don't want to go there. Going to bed, Jason frustrated me...

Evoloving tradition is just such a ball of string...

Nite all.

[PS: can I put a picture of my wife in a Monstrance, she wants to be venerated...grin, just a JOKE in case you get all bent ...]

[foundsheep]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 7 2004, 06:45 PM']

Read Romans.

Paul pretty clearly deliniated what constituted salvation, and what the requirements are, didn't he?

[/quote]
I guess that could be true but Ill take christ teaching in John chapter six and incorperate pauls addition. Or do pentacostals not take the lords word over Pauls.
Defeat the church with the Gospels. You cant.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 7 2004, 09:28 PM']Don't get me started....argh.

Pray TO the INVISIBLE GOD and the UNSEEN Jesus, invite the Holy Spirit IN.

The Monstrance is just too...

Well, I don't want to go there. Going to bed, Jason frustrated me...

Evoloving tradition is just such a ball of string...

Nite all.

[PS: can I put a picture of my wife in a Monstrance, she wants to be venerated...grin, just a JOKE in case you get all bent ...][/quote]
Ah man! I got all kinds of facts on this on this!!!

[url="http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/scrip/a6.html"]GO HERE!!![/url]

This will take you through the Old and the New Testament plus even tell you the Jewish tradition of the passover!

Edited April 8, 2004 by Jason

[Iacobus]

I tried to get it in the mouth. I am scared I won't "open" enough, but I think I did. I was outside of my Home Parish and they refused to give me Communion via mouth. I don't know I think a lot of people were sick around than though.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
4/11 - Easter Sunday

I just put my hands behind my back to get the point across.

[Bruce S]

"Take and Eat"

The Last supper was a MEAL, like our Thanksgiving, a national day of praise, the REAL way is to eat the bread, and drink the wine.

Rules rules rules

Silly nonsense.

Legalisms are still alive.

[Livin_the_MASS]

"The "Vast Depths of Love
The Saints’ Words about the Eucharist

Those who receive Communion lose themselves in God like a drop of water in the ocean: It’s impossible to separate them anymore. . . . In these vast depths of love, there’s enough to lose yourself for eternity.
—St. John Vianney

This morning my soul is greater than the world since it possesses you, you whom heaven and earth do not contain.
—St. Margaret of Cortona

Whoever turns to the Eucharist frequently and devoutly so effectively builds up his soul’s health that it is almost impossible for him to be poisoned by evil affection of any kind.
—St. Francis de Sales

Go to Holy Communion even when you feel lukewarm, leaving everything in God’s hands. The more my sickness debilitates me,
the more urgently do I need
a doctor.
—St. Bonaventure

If you are cold, do you think it sensible to move away from the fire? Precisely because you feel your heart frozen you should go “more frequently” to Holy Communion, provided you feel a sincere desire to love Jesus Christ.
—St. Alphonsus Liguori

On this earth, when we receive an important person, we bring out the best—lights, music, formal dress. How should we prepare to receive Christ into our soul? Have we ever thought how we would behave if we could only receive him once in a lifetime?
—Bl. Josemaría Escrivá

Communion is the medicine of immortality, antidote against death, and food by which to live forever in Jesus Christ.
—St. Ignatius of Antioch

Our Lord does not come from Heaven every day to stay in a golden ciborium. He comes to find another Heaven, the Heaven of our soul in which He loves to dwell.
—St. Thérèse of Lisieux

He is generous even to exhaustion; and what is most wonderful is, that he gives himself thus entirely, not once only, but every day, if we wish it. Every fresh Communion is a new gift which Jesus Christ makes of himself.
—St. Ignatius of Loyola

Holy Communion is the shortest and safest way to heaven. There are others: innocence, but that is for children; penance, but we are afraid of it; generous endurance for the trials of life, but when they come we weep and ask to be spared. The surest, easiest, shortest way is the Eucharist.
—St. Pius X"

Get you facts right Bruce its not jus a meal, come on, you should know better it's Sacred and Holy, I advise back off this subject, could lead to trouble unless your open to it.

God Bless
Jason

[Bruce S]

[quote]Get you facts right Bruce its not jus a meal, come on, you should know better it's Sacred and Holy, I advise back off this subject, could lead to trouble unless your open to it.[/quote]

Jason, it WAS a "meal" Passover, the traditional meal, of celebration for the Jewish delivery from Egypt. Jesus used that "meal" to extend His mission, to show what He was about, and asked US, like the Jews before, to "Do this in rememberance of ME" just as Moses commanded the Jews to celebrate Passover forever, as "Rememberance of"

Symbolism isn't your strong point, is it?

This was a TIE to the Passover, and a REPLACEMENT of the symbolic deliverance and the EAT and DRINK were identical to what the Jews were commanded.

The body was no longer the sacrificial commanded Lamb, but Jesus, the blood shed and put on the lintels was no longer the lambs, but Jesus. It was to be the FINAL sacrifice forever.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 11 2004, 09:28 AM']
Jason, it WAS a "meal" Passover, the traditional meal, of celebration for the Jewish delivery from Egypt. Jesus used that "meal" to extend His mission, to show what He was about, and asked US, like the Jews before, to "Do this in rememberance of ME" just as Moses commanded the Jews to celebrate Passover forever, as  "Rememberance of"

Symbolism isn't your strong point, is it?

This was a TIE to the Passover, and a REPLACEMENT of the symbolic deliverance and the EAT and DRINK were identical to what  the Jews were commanded.

The body was no longer the sacrificial commanded Lamb, but Jesus, the blood shed and put on the lintels was no longer the lambs, but Jesus. It was to be the FINAL sacrifice forever. [/quote]
The Eucharist is not a symbol it is Christ Himself Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.

Sheeeh how long have you been here? Yes it is a Sacred Meal, SACRED because we feed upon the True Presence of Our God were we become One with Him. Jesus is the Sacrifical Lamb, The Lamb of God! He is the Bread of Life!

It's Sacred Bruce!

God Bless
Jason

Edited April 11, 2004 by Jason

[Jericho923]

Amen to our Cloud of Witnesses!

A PASCHAL MEAL, and yet it was only complete when the Lamb was slain...Our Father took the Blood of the Lamb and sprinkled it on our doorposts, so that the angel of death would not enter...death was defeated! It is the covenant, and so as much as it was Jesus' last MEAL, it is the highest Sacrifice we have been given to offer back to GOD...There were not two Jesus; one did not institute the Paschal Supper and the other died on the Cross fulfilling the Prophesies and kepping alive the Covenant of God and His people (for Hes did tell the Israelites that His covenenat would last forever)...no, it was one and only one, the ONE, the Same...and so the Eucharist is the result of that Sacrifice and giving of Himself...and we were instructed how to celebrated and consume it! Worthy of the Highest offering...worthy of our lives.

Rules are needed to maintain such Truth for over 2000 years! otherwise everyone would go their own way...as early as Paul you find specific instructions and directions to seeking holiness and approaching the Altar of the Lord. ANd for that matter, what did Jesus do throughout His entire Ministry? Gave us rules and guidelines to live IN Love, the Love and Freedom His Sacrifice granted us.

Halleluia!!!! HE IS RISEN!!!!
Glorious Resurrection day to all of you my sisters and brothers!!

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Jericho923' date='Apr 11 2004, 09:39 AM'] Amen to our Cloud of Witnesses!

A PASCHAL MEAL, and yet it was only complete when the Lamb was slain...Our Father took the Blood of the Lamb and sprinkled it on our doorposts, so that the angel of death would not enter...death was defeated! It is the covenant, and so as much as it was Jesus' last MEAL, it is the highest Sacrifice we have been given to offer back to GOD...There were not two Jesus; one did not institute the Paschal Supper and the other died on the Cross fulfilling the Prophesies and kepping alive the Covenant of God and His people (for Hes did tell the Israelites that His covenenat would last forever)...no, it was one and only one, the ONE, the Same...and so the Eucharist is the result of that Sacrifice and giving of Himself...and we were instructed how to celebrated and consume it! Worthy of the Highest offering...worthy of our lives.

Rules are needed to maintain such Truth for over 2000 years! otherwise everyone would go their own way...as early as Paul you find specific instructions and directions to seeking holiness and approaching the Altar of the Lord. ANd for that matter, what did Jesus do throughout His entire Ministry? Gave us rules and guidelines to live IN Love, the Love and Freedom His Sacrifice granted us.

Halleluia!!!! HE IS RISEN!!!!
Glorious Resurrection day to all of you my sisters and brothers!! [/quote]
Jericho923 I missed you,

Where you been!!

Good to have your back

God Bless
Jason

[amarkich]

Just to clarify, I am a he (this is basically for willguy). Also, Bruce, can you give it a rest with the personal interpretation and Sola Scriptura? I asked a question concerning logic (I know this is a foreign concept, so I tried to use simple words), and you were unable to answer. I am pointing out that it is ridiculous for anyone to claim that both Catholics and Protestants are fine doing what they are doing, following their personal conscience, etc, when one of the two is sinning against the First Commandment (well, I guess you guys made up your own Ten Commandment ordering, so, Catholics are breaking your "Second Commandment" concerning idols or Protestants are denying God). God bless.