One "big Mac" And Damnation Follows?

[dUSt]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 7 2004, 02:26 PM'] WHAT?!?!?!

are you saying that the Roman Catholic Church wrote the Bible? and therefore has the privelige, obligation and duty to bend its ohsocrystalclear guide lines to how it sees fit?

all the while "led by the Holy Ghost"

someone stop this loco motives...this is where I get off. [/quote]
Yes. That is pretty much what I'm saying, although, not in such a condenscending way.

The Church is the protector of God's Word.

[Bruce S]

[quote]WHAT?!?!?!

are you saying that the Roman Catholic Church wrote the Bible? and therefore has the privelige, obligation and duty to bend its ohsocrystalclear guide lines to how it sees fit?

all the while "led by the Holy Ghost"

someone stop this loco motives...this is where I get off.[/quote]

Yep, that is EXACTLY what they want you to accept, and the head theologian of the 20th century spelled it all out here for you, rolling, moving, shifting, ever "developing" in and out change, and it NEVER CHANGES too, both are operative.

[quote]Yet it is still living, if there be a living religion or philosophy in the world; [color=blue][b]vigorous, energetic, persuasive, progressive;[/b][/color] vires acquirit eundo; [b]it grows and is not overgrown; it spreads out, yet is not enfeebled;[u] it is ever germinating[/u], yet ever consistent with itself. [/b][/quote]

[url="http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/chapter12.html"]http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/chapter12.html[/url]

Cannonize this man, Newman is the only one alive that could make this nonsense sound plausible.

Edited April 7, 2004 by Bruce S

[dUSt]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 7 2004, 02:26 PM'] That was why I left the Catholic Church in 1970s'ish.

They changed the rules, and suddenly, it was no longer a mortal sin to eat meat on Fridays.

I could NOT reconcille the thought of people that WERE in hell, having eaten meat and died without confession. [And that was EXACTLY what we were taught then]

What happened to [b]THEM,[/b] did they get a [b]"get out hell free card"[/b] or what? Are they still burning eternally, or does heaven retroactively change too as earthly commands morph over time? Does the Pope or a council have the right to get people OUT of hell now too?

That was the massive crack that got to me, I then looked HARD at the rest of the man made stuff, that we were taught was eternal and of God.

A critical eye toward what is taught as eternal and what is just control of people followed, and is still operative to me today. [/quote]
I'm sorry that you didn't have anyone back then to explain the theology to you a little better. I hope that some day you'll return to the Church.

God bless.

[mulls]

"But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."


Matthew 6:17-18



this works for me. i just finished my first fast.

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 7 2004, 01:26 PM'] That was why I left the Catholic Church in 1970s'ish.

They changed the rules, and suddenly, it was no longer a mortal sin to eat meat on Fridays.

I could NOT reconcille the thought of people that WERE in hell, having eaten meat and died without confession. [And that was EXACTLY what we were taught then]

What happened to [b]THEM,[/b] did they get a [b]"get out hell free card"[/b] or what? Are they still burning eternally, or does heaven retroactively change too as earthly commands morph over time? Does the Pope or a council have the right to get people OUT of hell now too?

That was the massive crack that got to me, I then looked HARD at the rest of the man made stuff, that we were taught was eternal and of God.

A critical eye toward what is taught as eternal and what is just control of people followed, and is still operative to me today.
[/QUOTE] [/quote]
No one is in Hell that didn't choose to be there.

[Bruce S]

[quote]I'm sorry that you didn't have anyone back then to explain the theology to you a little better. I hope that some day you'll return to the Church.
[/quote]

Explain WHAT? This?

I'm an EXPERT now on Catholic theology, and it still is impenentrable prose.

I bet there are few priests that could grapple with this thing effectively.

Like I said, it takes Newman to untangle this one and try to shoehorn in abrupt change and still claim everything was ALWAYS THE SAME.

Phhhooo.

[the lumberjack]

AMEN AND AMEN mulls!

go UCONN!

mens and womens!

[dUSt]

[quote name='mulls' date='Apr 7 2004, 02:34 PM'] "But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."


Matthew 6:17-18



this works for me. i just finished my first fast. [/quote]
Guess it's no longer a secret then huh? lol

[Spiritual_Arsonist]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 7 2004, 02:05 PM'] This friday, is a day when eating meat is a mortal sin for Catholics.

Now, some will tell us that this isn't so, but HONESTLY, how can a good Christian LOSE his eternal salvation, be condemned to Hell if he dies after eating deliberately a mere Big Mac this upcoming Friday?




Your salvation is NOT contingent upone dietary restrictions, and for a denomination to try to reimpose dietary conditions as a condition for union with God in the afterlife, is nothing more than what the early Christians broke free of.

[/quote]
Bruce, I normally do not reply to this type of post, but I want to let you know I feel really sorry about the way you think about the Church.

No, eating meat does not beaver dam anyone to hell. Maifestly and willfully not being obedient to Christ and his Church is sinful. Yes, Christ made all foods clean, but cannot one even surpass meat for a little morsel for the Love Of Christ?

[color=red]Please do not assume to know the faith of the Church or anyone one Catholic's faith. [/color]

The Church is not a denomination, it does not change by the will of its members. You are looking at things within the aspect of "being under the law."

[dUSt]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 7 2004, 02:35 PM'] I'm an EXPERT now on Catholic theology, and it still is impenentrable prose. [/quote]
Are you being sarcastic?

[Livin_the_MASS]

"These two sources of divine revelation which make up this one “sacred deposit” are safeguarded and defended by the Sacred Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church), whose job it is to guarantee the authenticity of the message while at the same time remaining its servant:

“The task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or spoken, has been entrusted exclusively to the living teaching office of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ. This teaching office is not above the word of God, but serves it, teaching only what has been handed on, listening to it devoutly, guarding it scrupulously, and explaining it faithfully. In accord with a divine commission and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it draws from this one deposit of faith everything which it presents for belief as divinely revealed” (DV 10).

The Sacred Magisterium is embodied in the living teaching office and authority of the papacy. Immediately after declaring Peter the first pope, our Lord gives him the “keys to the kingdom of heaven,” so that whatever the papacy declares “bind[ing] on earth shall be bound in heaven,” and whatsoever the Papacy declares “loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” It is here that Sacred Scripture confirms the reality and power of the Sacred Magisterium."

POW

[mulls]

[quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 7 2004, 03:36 PM'] Guess it's no longer a secret then huh? lol [/quote]
like i said, i just finished fasting....i broke it like 20 minutes ago.


maybe i shouldn't have said anything.


but the point seems to be that WHILE i was doing it i didn't make it obvious to people, just to say "look, i'm fasting."


i told two of my friends just for support, since we're all working for the same cause which was the reason for the fasting in the first place.

[the lumberjack]

if you were to take all the warehouses full of papers and teachings and doctrines and prayers and everything else that encompasses the catholic church, and get rid of it, a week later no one would be able to agree on anything.

and thats reality.

there's SO much jargon and paperwork to try to wade thru to get to know the catholic church, and to attempt to comprehend it all, even the "basics", which is the duty of any diligent Christian...would be impossible.

impenetrable prose...word.

[Jake Huether]

I was hoping that y'all would read my post on pg 2 (end). There is a difference between fasting and abstinance. No one is required to "fast" from meat.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Bruce S' date='Apr 7 2004, 03:35 PM'] I'm an EXPERT now on Catholic theology, [/quote]
Really?