The Liturgy Of The Hours Is Missing Verses!

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='24 November 2009 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1259117516' post='2008960']
Here is another example....Week II Wednesday, Daytime Prayer
Psalm 55:2-15, 17-24

notice how verse 16 is missing....hmmm lets see what this verse has to say

Verse 16 "Let death come upon them, and let them go down alive into hell. For there is wickedness in their dwellings: in the midst of them."

hmm thats wierd how the missing verse always applies to the enemies of God! Its kinda disturbing.
[/quote]


Because as the instruction says in effect, the psychological effect of these words in a time of prayer, are not conducive to prayer, but
can be disturbing, thereby distracting from prayer, which the LOH is.

When you become Pope, you can make the change, but I hope in isn't in my life time. I don't want to have to purchase two new sets of LOTH's for my wife and myself. The set I have now cost almost $150 as it is. X2 = nearly $300.

Jim

[Veridicus]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1259421093' post='2010656']
Crucify him, Crucify him! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/ohno.gif[/img]


Gesh!


Jim
[/quote]

Perhaps I did take it a little far. However, it's a far stretch to interpolate his memory upon the Passion of Jesus Christ. I'll let the future perspective of history determine how to remember Bugnini's influence on the liturgical life of the Church Militant.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 08:21 AM' timestamp='1259421683' post='2010662']
Because as the instruction says in effect, the psychological effect of these words in a time of prayer, are not conducive to prayer . . .
[/quote]
Well, two thousand years of the Church's worship says otherwise. The Byzantine Churches (both Catholic and Orthodox) continue to pray the whole psalter.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1259421683' post='2010662']
When you become Pope, you can make the change, but I hope in isn't in my life time. I don't want to have to purchase two new sets of LOTH's for my wife and myself. The set I have now cost almost $150 as it is. X2 = nearly $300.
[/quote]
You could probably just write in the missing versus with a pen in the margin. It wouldn't be as pretty, but would be more complete. The give the remaining $300 to your parish of favorite charity.

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1259421683' post='2010662']
Because as the instruction says in effect, the psychological effect of these words in a time of prayer, are not conducive to prayer, but
can be disturbing, thereby distracting from prayer, which the LOH is.
[/quote]

The canon of the Bible was established as the books which would be used for liturgical purposes; that is which texts among the many circulating contained the true, inspired Word of God worthy of being honored during Worhsip and prayer. What if the Passion readings or more graphic portions of Revelations have detrimental "psychological effects in a time of prayer are not conducive to prayer." Should we strike these passages from the GIRM?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Veridicus

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='28 November 2009 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1259444031' post='2010766']
You could probably just write in the missing versus with a pen in the margin. It wouldn't be as pretty, but would be more complete.
[/quote]
[url="http://www.synaxis.info/psalter/5_english/5_english.html"]The Orthodox Psalter Project[/url]

[JimR-OCDS]

Well lets take a look at one of the missing Psalms, Psalm 58.

Bold text is mine emphasis

[quote]
1 [sup][url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm58.htm#foot1"]1[/url][/sup] [sup][url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm58.htm#foot2"]2[/url][/sup] For the leader. Do not destroy. A miktam of David. 2 [sup][url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm58.htm#foot3"]3[/url][/sup] Do you indeed pronounce justice, O gods; do you judge mortals fairly? 3 No, you freely engage in crime; your hands dispense violence to the earth. 4 The wicked have been corrupt since birth; liars from the womb, they have gone astray. 5 [sup][url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm58.htm#foot4"]4[/url][/sup] Their poison is like the poison of a snake, like that of a serpent stopping its ears, 6 So as not to hear the voice of the charmer who casts such cunning spells. 7 O God, smash the teeth in their mouths; break the jaw-teeth of these lions, LORD! 8 Make them vanish like water flowing away; trodden down, let them wither like grass. 9 [sup][url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm58.htm#foot5"]5[/url][/sup] Let them dissolve like a snail that oozes away, like an untimely birth that never sees the sun. 10 Suddenly, like brambles or thistles, have the whirlwind snatch them away. [b]11 [/b] [b]Then the just shall rejoice to see the vengeance and bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked. [/b]12 Then it will be said: "Truly there is a reward for the just; there is a God who is judge on earth!"
[/quote]

I can see how some would love verse 11, but I think the editors of the LOTH, saw a problem with
it used in prayer.

Anyway, I don't really have a problem with it.

Jim

[Resurrexi]

This is one of the many reasons why I use the EF office.

[mortify]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='28 November 2009 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1259421683' post='2010662']
Because as the instruction says in effect, the psychological effect of these words in a time of prayer, are not conducive to prayer, but
can be disturbing, thereby distracting from prayer, which the LOH is.
[/quote]

Jim, the hard part to understand is that God has inspired the Psalms and they are intended for prayer. I think the psychological card has been used to make vast alterations to the Church's way of worship and this includes the liturgy as well. Anyway, despite living in a strange period of Church history the Pope has been making moves to return and continue in tradition.

Pax Christi on this first Sunday of Advent,
Mort

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='mortify' date='29 November 2009 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1259513594' post='2011070']
Jim, the hard part to understand is that God has inspired the Psalms and they are intended for prayer. I think the psychological card has been used to make vast alterations to the Church's way of worship and this includes the liturgy as well. Anyway, despite living in a strange period of Church history the Pope has been making moves to return and continue in tradition.

Pax Christi on this first Sunday of Advent,
Mort
[/quote]


But the context of the Psalms is that of Israel, who saw themselves as the righteous, and hence, Psalm 58 calls on God to destroy
the sinners, "the others."

In contrast to Jesus message, who calls us to spread the good news to all people.

I believe the editors of the Catholic Publishing Company, are using the Psalms within a Christian context, not the Tribal Jewish context,
from which they originated.

Their version of the LOTH is an approved version and most accepted version in the English speaking Latin Rite.

Jim

[Veridicus]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='29 November 2009 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1259520823' post='2011114']
...is an approved version and most accepted version in the English speaking Latin Rite.
[/quote]

Phrases like this have been rapidly losing their value to me as I learn more and more about my Faith.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='29 November 2009 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1259524111' post='2011169']
Phrases like this have been rapidly losing their value to me as I learn more and more about my Faith.
[/quote]
I agree.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='29 November 2009 - 11:53 AM' timestamp='1259520823' post='2011114']
I believe the editors of the Catholic Publishing Company, are using the Psalms within a Christian context, not the Tribal Jewish context, from which they originated.[/quote]
Catholic Book Publishing Company is not at fault for removing inspired texts from the Liturgy of the Hours, so they should not get the blame.



As far as the removal of psalms and portions of psalms is concerned, it would be better to explain the texts during the homelitic reflections that can form a part of the Liturgy of the Hours rather than suppress inspired scripture, which has been prayed by the whole Church for 2,000 years.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Nihil Obstat]

I think this again goes back to "don't dumb down the faith!"

[mortify]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='29 November 2009 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1259520823' post='2011114']
But the context of the Psalms is that of Israel, who saw themselves as the righteous, and hence, Psalm 58 calls on God to destroy
the sinners, "the others."

In contrast to Jesus message, who calls us to spread the good news to all people.[/quote]

Keep in mind Scripture dose not oppose itself, if there are *apparent* contradictions they are a product of man's mind, and not a problem in Scripture itself.

[quote]I believe the editors of the Catholic Publishing Company, are using the Psalms within a Christian context, not the Tribal Jewish context,
from which they originated.[/quote]

Again, keep in mind God is the primary originator of the Psalms and all parts of Scripture. Psalm 58 itself is referring to detractors and hypocrites.

[url="http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id782.html"]Psalm 58[/url]

[quote]Their version of the LOTH is an approved version and most accepted version in the English speaking Latin Rite.
[/quote]

This doesn't mean it doesn't possess legitimate flaws.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='29 November 2009 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1259525115' post='2011184']
I think this again goes back to "don't dumb down the faith!"
[/quote]
Actually, it goes back to the Consilium, which revised the Roman Church's liturgy according to the notion that the liturgy needed to be updated in order to make sense to "modern man."