Hassan Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 November 2009 - 03:41 PM' timestamp='1259181666' post='2009380'] It is very hard for some people to reconcile the fact that Islam promotes violence. Well said. [/quote] Really? I just spent the weekend with several Muslim friends in DC. All of them are very devout. Never once did they attack me, who they well know is not of their faith, or any other unbelievers. How do we explain this phenomena? How do we understand how these men and women, who know considerably more about their faith than you do and are quite devout, do not go one regular killing sprees? Perhaps Islam, being a man made abstraction, has no causal powers of it's own. Perhaps there are any number of currents and diverse opinions in this ideology and typecasting it as a monolith is simply wrongheaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='24 November 2009 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1259114252' post='2008921'] Islam is Islam. "Radicals" are only doing what Islam teaches them to do. Whereas ultra Orthodox Jews have a warped understanding of Judaism[/quote] How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' date='25 November 2009 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1259167657' post='2009254'] Stop using my name. I have never introduced myself to you, and I have never been friendly with you. Therefore I have no clue why you think you have the right to address me like that, all over the thread. [/quote] Sorry, I wasn't aware that it was a matter of a "right to address" to use your name. You're more than welcome to call me Jake but if you'd prefer me to use your screen name then that's what I'll do HCF [quote] To continue, people do suffer under Islam. I was not making a generalization. Women get dragged into the street and stoned by their husbands for "disrespecting" them. Little girls get wed to grown men. Muslims have strapped bombs to themselves and blown themselves up in the middle of crowded streets. Adolescent girls and women get killed because they have "dishonored" their family in some way, such as dating a non-Muslim. I believe all of those people have suffered under Islam, no? [/quote] You begin by saying you're not making any generalizations before listing behaviour that is not in any way representative of the worlds 1 billion Muslims. Right, gottcha. Perhaps you should think a little more before you type. [quote] Those people have quoted the Qur'an, i.e. used it in their defense, to justify their barbaric behavior. They did not twist the words of the Qur'an, they have directly quoted it. [/quote] And the Qur'an is the only religious text that can be quoted to support violence? [mod]inappropriate websites- MIKolbe[/mod] etc. [quote] Christians are very fond of defending the Church against the crusades, pedophilia etc. by arguing that the actions of members in no way detract from the goodness of the religion. Why isn't Islam afforded the same? Double standards, Erin. [/quote] Edited November 26, 2009 by MIkolbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='25 November 2009 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1259193652' post='2009463'] Sorry, I wasn't aware that it was a matter of a "right to address" to use your name. You're more than welcome to call me Jake but if you'd prefer me to use your screen name then that's what I'll do HCF [/quote] Internet Protocol 101: If you are not on a first name bases with a women, you should avoid using first names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Silly KOC, there are no women on the internet! men are men, women are men, and children are the FBI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='25 November 2009 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1259195369' post='2009468'] Internet Protocol 101: If you are not on a first name bases with a women, you should avoid using first names. [/quote] A first name bases with a women? Alright then... Edited November 26, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='25 November 2009 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1259195894' post='2009471'] A first name bases with a women? Alright then... [/quote] Anyone really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 And yes I am aware I spelled basis incorrectly. Still it is rude to use peoples frist names, if you and not on a first name [i]bases[/i], oh darn not a again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Yeah.... Anyway I've apologised to HCF if I offended her and now we can get back to the discussion at hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 03:43 PM' timestamp='1259181791' post='2009383'] Perhaps he is simply trying to point out that Islam is a form of religious deception that has kept millions upon millions of people in the dark. Christ is the true light that enlightens men, not Mohammad or his deceptive ideology. [/quote] No Muhammad is the true light. He and Vishnu assured me of this. Someday you will step out of your darkness and into the glorious light that comes from accecpting Muhammad as your personal lord and savior and sharing a BFF charm bracelet with Shiva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='25 November 2009 - 10:09 AM' timestamp='1259161740' post='2009200'] God in Genesis referring to Himself in the third person is a partial revelation, in due time, of the reality Holy Trinity. Are you proposing that God himself directly inspired that part of the Koran? Or that God merely allowed Mahomet to put that in his demonic work, and may use it to accomplish good? I have no doubt of the latter, but otherwise, I don't know what you are trying to prove by saying "God is reaching out" in this context. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Wow. Brilliant. I use the second person plural to refer to people above me when speaking Russian. I must be implying that they have multiple personalities. Or perhaps, like Arabic, this is simply a function of the language and implies no multiplicity, but simply respect and sovereignty. This is why Muslims who speak Qur'anic Arabic, like Jews who speak Biblical Hebrew, never take such proposition as implications of polytheism or a God of multiple personalities. It's is spelled "Muhammad" that is the most accurate transliteration from the Arabic. And unless you refer to Anglicans as "Henryians" you need to knock off that "Muhammadan" croutons. It's ignorant and rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='25 November 2009 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1259162344' post='2009204'] The similarities? [/font][/size][/font][/size][/font] [color="#ff0000"][font="Arial"][color="#000000"]Heed the wisdom of the Koran, [4:34]: "The men are made responsible for the women, and Allah has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is Allah's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then desert them in bed, [b]then you may beat them.[/b] If they obey you, you are not permitted to [b]transgress[/b] against them. Allah is Most High, Supreme."[/color][/font] [/color] [font="Arial"][size="1"][font="Verdana"][size="2"] [font="Arial"] ~Sternhauser[/font][/size][/font][b] [/b][/size][/font] [/quote] Let's compare that to your God's wisdom in the Torah in instructing his people how to deal with lackluster slaves. Do you really want to go down the road of who has God hiving the more barbaric and morally depraved injunctions in their sacred text? I guarantee you that your God will come of looking no beter and the foundation of your religion no more enlightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [QUOTE]I am absolutely positive that a Church Scholar can come in here and fully explain why the Old Testament and the Qur'an cannot be compared. For one thing, in the Old Testament, it was God who decided punishments and gave them. In the Qur'an, the people are instructed through the Prophet who says this is what Allah expects and wants. That is all I will say on that, because this thread is NOT about the Old Testmanet versus the Qur'an.[/QUOTE] So you don't know how, but you're sure that somehow somewhere out there somebody can explain why the punishments your prophet claims God has ordained (fyi the penal injunctions of the Bible come through the medium of the prophet Moses according to your faith's [historically dubious] tradition) are somehow less barbaric than the punishments their prophet has claimed God ordained. How is stoning a woman guilty of adultery because people insist Muhammad declared that the punishment God wills more barbaric than stoning a woman for adultery because Moses claims that your God had ordained that a fitting punishment. Let's hear the great moral distinction. Edited November 26, 2009 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' date='25 November 2009 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1259200290' post='2009487'] Let's compare that to your God's wisdom in the Torah in instructing his people how to deal with lackluster slaves. Do you really want to go down the road of who has God hiving the more barbaric and morally depraved injunctions in their sacred text? I guarantee you that your God will come of looking no beter and the foundation of your religion no more enlightened. [/quote] Neither the Torah nor the Halakhic sources permit a man to beat his wife, which is the example that Sternhouser gave from the Quran, and which you then tried to switch into a focus upon the penalty to be applied for the crime of adultery, and the acceptance of servitude. I am always amazed at the lengths to which you will go to defend Islam. Edited November 26, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1259202631' post='2009504'] Neither the Torah nor the Halakhic sources permit a man to beat his wife, which is the example that Sternhouser gave from the Quran, and which you then tried to switch into a focus upon the penalty to be applied for the crime of adultery, and the acceptance of servitude. I am always amazed at the lengths to which you will go to defend Islam. [/quote] I'm not defending Islam. Permitting a man to beat his wife is appauling. I'm simply not willing to turn a bling eye to the savagery contained in your sacred text, dictated by your God. Erin is waiting for your response in the Imam thread btw. Edited November 26, 2009 by Hassan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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