HisChildForever Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='Maggie' date='24 November 2009 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1259113842' post='2008917'] How so? SSPX doesn't do the vigilante thing I don't believe, which the other two do. Otherwise I think the SSPX can very easily be compared to the ultra Orthodox and the Wahhabis. All fundamentalist flavors of their various religions. Although I think the SSPX is much more "mainstream" than the latter two... they would not Photoshop the women cabinet ministers out of official photos the way the ultra orthodox do, nor do they have the vicious legal structures of the fundamentalist Muslims... although perhaps this is only because they do not have any power anywhere to control the legislature. [/quote] Islam is Islam. "Radicals" are only doing what Islam teaches them to do. Whereas ultra Orthodox Jews have a warped understanding of Judaism; and the SSPX are not in full communion with Rome, and therefore do not represent Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='24 November 2009 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1259114252' post='2008921'] Islam is Islam. "Radicals" are only doing what Islam teaches them to do. Whereas ultra Orthodox Jews have a warped understanding of Judaism; and the SSPX are not in full communion with Rome, and therefore do not represent Catholicism. [/quote] I don't know if that's so. The ultra Orthodox view themselves as being the true Jews and everyone else is apostate and so do the SSPX think they are the only true Catholics. How do you know that the ultra Orthodox have a warped understanding of Judaism? Have you studied it extensively? I have known Muslims - great intellectuals who have studied their faith tradition in depth - who consider the radical Muslims to be perverting Islam in the same way we look at the SSPX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 SSPX do not think they are the only true Catholics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='Maggie' date='24 November 2009 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1259114586' post='2008923'] I don't know if that's so. The ultra Orthodox view themselves as being the true Jews and everyone else is apostate and so do the SSPX think they are the only true Catholics. How do you know that the ultra Orthodox have a warped understanding of Judaism? [/quote] Well, you just said it for me. "The ultra Orthodox view themselves as being the true Jews and everyone else is apostate." [quote] Have you studied it extensively? I have known Muslims - great intellectuals who have studied their faith tradition in depth - who consider the radical Muslims to be perverting Islam in the same way we look at the SSPX. [/quote] How do those Muslims interpret the same passages the radicals use in support of their barbaric actions? I am genuinely curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 November 2009 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1259114952' post='2008927'] SSPX do not think they are the only true Catholics... [/quote] Good to know, although you wouldn't be able to tell from their attitudes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='24 November 2009 - 07:09 PM' timestamp='1259114952' post='2008927'] SSPX do not think they are the only true Catholics... [/quote] I agree. The SSPX are not a Church, nor do they pretend to be one; instead, they are simply a fraternal society of priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='24 November 2009 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1259115012' post='2008928'] Well, you just said it for me. "The ultra Orthodox view themselves as being the true Jews and everyone else is apostate." How do those Muslims interpret the same passages the radicals use in support of their barbaric actions? I am genuinely curious. [/quote] I am not an expert myself of course, but my impression is they interpret those passages the same way we interpret the violent Old Testament passages and even some of St. Paul's writings regarding head coverings and women speaking in Church etc, women submitting to their husbands (don't want to start a debate here on those things!). The main thing to think about being "what is the point God is trying to make here?" rather than a literal interpretation of the text. Again I have never read the Koran cover to cover and I am really not all that interested in it, and I know its role in the Islamic faith tradition is much different from the role the Bible plays in ours. However various schools of exegesis do exist, and part of the problem is that in Islam there is no Pope to determine which is the correct school... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='Maggie' date='24 November 2009 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1259115351' post='2008934']part of the problem is that in Islam there is no Pope to determine which is the correct school... [/quote] A good point. Islam has no ordained ministers, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiyoung Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I just want to point out that the motivation for these attacks were not religious, but romantic. Jilted suitors to the extreme. Also, for the crime of being a woman. It's a result of an exaggeratedly patriarchal society. So, I would protest that this isn't really about God but a bruised ego. I'm not necessarily trying to defend Islam, btw--I do think that the Islamic faith has created this kind of society in which this can happen. It's a patriarchy that isn't tempered with love the way that Christian society strives to be. Not that Christian societies necessarily ever achieve it, but at least it's a goal. Islamic society doesn't even have it on the horizon; its male dominance is more of a tyranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='24 November 2009 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1259110380' post='2008833'] I believe that the point system ultimately reflects emotion and not logic. \\//, [/quote] This. Now as to the OP: This is atrocious, and unfortunately given what was highlighted by the article, completely unsurprising. Especially in regards to the Wahabbis with their ultra-violent extremist views (See: the royal family effectively paying them not to launch a coup theories and the rise of the House of Saud using them as shock troops)...any group that has the sort of following and power that they do is dangerous to our security and dangerous to the people who come in contact with them on a daily basis, this article shows that in horrid detail. That those women can continue on in life after such a wretched ordeal is an amazing thing to me, and I hope I would have similar fortitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) [center][img]http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq271/MrCat1987/DarnPhil.gif[/img][/center] Why can't Phil see that Islam is peace and balanced? Edited November 25, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='24 November 2009 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1259081796' post='2008565'] Please pray for these women, as well as for everyone who suffers under Islam and from Islam. [/quote] Islam, Judaism and Christianity all have very disgusting, sadistic and draconian punishments in their respective texts. The only difference is that some Muslims actually follow through with the logical conclusion of Sharia law while most Christians and Jews won't take the Deuteronomic Code through to its logical conclusion. Christians are very fond of defending the Church against the crusades, pedophilia etc. by arguing that the actions of members in no way detract from the goodness of the religion. Why isn't Islam afforded the same? Double standards, Erin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='24 November 2009 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1259115012' post='2008928'] Well, you just said it for me. "The ultra Orthodox view themselves as being the true Jews and everyone else is apostate." How do those Muslims interpret the same passages the radicals use in support of their barbaric actions? I am genuinely curious. [/quote] The interpretation thing is exactly the same as the way Catholics and Protestants interpret the Bible differently. Okay, not the exact same since with Islam, one leads to violence. But my point is that just because one group interprets it "incorrectly" doesn't mean the other group is bad, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 HCF and Maggie, The SSPX believe in what they call the Dogma of the Social Kingship of Christ the King as well as the need to ban all religions other than Catholicism. That is the only political "position" of the SSPX and is summed up in Arch. Lefebvre's "They Have Uncrowned Him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' date='25 November 2009 - 12:19 AM' timestamp='1259126392' post='2009062'] Islam, Judaism and Christianity all have very disgusting, sadistic and draconian punishments in their respective texts. The only difference is that some Muslims actually follow through with the logical conclusion of Sharia law while most Christians and Jews won't take the Deuteronomic Code through to its logical conclusion. Christians are very fond of defending the Church against the crusades, pedophilia etc. by arguing that the actions of members in no way detract from the goodness of the religion. Why isn't Islam afforded the same? Double standards, Erin. [/quote] This is a good point. Fanatic followers don't necessarily accurately reflect the religion. That said, it must be kept in mind that the Torah/Talmud/Bible were written over the course of thousands of years by a myriad authors. It cannot be taken in a uniform manner throughout, due to differing styles, literary devices, and so forth used. Plus that whole Jesus thing kind of changed the way we viewed justice and punishment (as opposed to the Deuteronomic laws). The Quran on the other hand was written all at once, after it was (in the Muslim view) given to Muhammad by God in a vision. Edited November 25, 2009 by USAirwaysIHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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