Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='25 November 2009 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1259205131' post='2009530'] It's not changing the topic. Wifebeating is one thread of the larger issue of the misogynistic components of these religions. What would you like to talk about regarding wife beating in the Islamic tradition that you feel I am avoiding? The Qur'an allows a husband to beat hit his wife after certain alternative methods of resolving her "disobedience" have been resolved. The allowance of a man to resort to violence to resolve a marital dispute is wrong. The larger assumptions which feed into this allowance, the logical antecedents to this conclusion-like that the man holds a position of superiority over his wife in the marital union- are also wrong. The optimal thing would be for people to neither need nor want Islam as a world view. But as that is not realistic people need to work with Islamic cultures and intellectuals to mold the tradition to phase out all vestiges of this tradition. I could go on. However when you all want to expand from this and use this to demonstrate the moral superiority of your God and prophets I must object and point out the misogynistic and regressive elements of your faith. [/quote] You know sometimes I think you try to hard to sound like a philosopher, and after you accused me of being too esoteric because I am faithful to my religious tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='25 November 2009 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1259205131' post='2009530'] I could go on. [/quote] I am sure that you could go on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' date='25 November 2009 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1259205131' post='2009530'] However when you all want to expand from this and use this to demonstrate the moral superiority of your God and prophets I must object and point out the misogynistic and regressive elements of your faith. [/quote] Yes, I know, because you love to talk about the evils of Judaism and Christianity. I would love to see you start a thread in which you focus all of your attention on what you see as bad about Islam, but that would make you feel uncomfortable. Edited November 26, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 10:15 PM' timestamp='1259205333' post='2009535'] You know sometimes I think you try to hard to sound like a philosopher, and after you accused me of being too esoteric because I am faithful to my religious tradition. [/quote] I'm not trying to sound like anything. I type how I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='25 November 2009 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1259205638' post='2009538'] I'm not trying to sound like anything. I type how I think. [/quote] I feel for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1259205570' post='2009537'] Yes, I know, because you love to talk about the evils of Judaism and Christianity. I would love to see you start a thread in which you focus all of your attention on what you see as bad about Islam, but that would make you feel uncomfortable. [/quote] Not at all. You could start a thread responding to the criticisms of Islam I already posted on the Imam thread about the wrongs in the Islamic tradition and we can make a thread of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1259205700' post='2009539'] I feel for you. [/quote] Now you're just being snarky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='25 November 2009 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1259205736' post='2009540'] Not at all. You could start a thread responding to the criticisms of Islam I already posted on the Imam thread about the wrongs in the Islamic tradition and we can make a thread of it. [/quote] I will take a look at that thread sometime this weekend. Perhaps, if I have time I will transcribe some of the Islamic texts that I have, especially those dealing with dhimmitude, and with the bizarre Islamic notion that one can be a martyr if he dies while killing non-Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' date='25 November 2009 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1259205850' post='2009541'] Now you're just being snarky. [/quote] I was being serious. I would have posted a smiley face of some kind otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 10:25 PM' timestamp='1259205911' post='2009542'] I will take a look at that thread sometime this weekend. Perhaps, if I have time I will transcribe some of the Islamic texts that I have, especially those dealing with dhimmitude, and with the bizarre Islamic notion that one can be a martyr if he dies while killing non-Muslims. [/quote] We could start with this. http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Precious-Virtues-Al-Favaid-Medieval/dp/0874803136 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I was thinking more along the lines of texts from the Sahih al-Bukhari and miscellaneous texts by companions of the "prophet" and things written by early Islamic theologians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Perhaps I will post part of the text written by the emperor Manuel Paleologus . . . you know, the text that Pope Benedict got in trouble with the media for quoting in his Regensburg speech. Edited November 26, 2009 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Now back to the actual topic of this thread, i.e., the mistreatment of women in Islamic societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='25 November 2009 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1259193652' post='2009463'] You begin by saying you're not making any generalizations before listing behaviour that is not in any way representative of the worlds 1 billion Muslims. Right, gottcha. Perhaps you should think a little more before you type.[/quote] The behaviors I listed were not intended to be a generalization of the world's Muslims. Rather, the behaviors I listed are examples of the ways people have suffered under Islam. Perhaps you should read the post carefully before replying to it. [quote] And the Qur'an is the only religious text that can be quoted to support violence? www.godhatesfags.com www.godhatessweden.com www.priestsrapeboys.com etc. [/quote] I really and truly do not want to derail my thread, but Christianity - which you seem keen on discrediting these days - calls people to love homosexuals regardless of their sinful sexual activity. Even if the individual is participating in those activities, we are called to pray for them. Islam, however? [b]According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual. 5 Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful. They differ in terms of penalty: The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted. The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted. The Sha'fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act. Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army. [/b] Link: http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='25 November 2009 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1259203246' post='2009511'] Who is Erin? [/quote] That would be me. And you are absolutely allowed to refer to me by name, if the occasion ever arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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