princessgianna Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' date='22 November 2009 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1258940528' post='2007627'] Well that's the mentality I'm talking about. It's a sign of respect and America has no reason to think itself superior to Japan. [/quote] If you read my first post you will see that I am not [b]totally[/b] against Obama doing the bow as much as he did it wrong* and the Emperor did [b]NOT[/b] do it first). *therefore giving the wrong impression of being a subordiate being to the Emperor of Japan. The 90 degree bow was inappropriate. As explained in my first post. Edited November 23, 2009 by princessgianna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='22 November 2009 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1258939297' post='2007615'] America takes patriotism to a whole new level that others in many countries couldn't even imagine. It's really quite disturbing actually. "as long as he is President of the US, he should not be bowing, just as we never dip our flag at the Olympics." Why? [/quote] Why? Because America gained its sovereign independence through a revolutionary war. Yes, that is right, Americans fought for their right to be free from royal power, while some modern nations gained their freedom through an act of the British parliament (e.g., Australia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princessgianna Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 [img]http://images.theweek.com/dir_31/the_week_15828_27.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) PG, what does it mean when two people bow at the same time to each other? Also, is eye contact good or bad while bowing? Different people have different ideas on that. Edited November 23, 2009 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princessgianna Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) It means that both people are bowing. You have to realize that a bow between a Japanese and a Japanese as opposed to a Japanese to a non Japanese is handled different. And a bow between Emperor and the American President should be slight because they both are leaders. If anything the Emperor would do a deeper bow- because the Japanese are very humble people. And most likely the Emperor did not return the bow because they were in a middle of a handshake. And it would not be proper to bow in the middle of that. All eye contact is actaully bad. It makes the Japanese nervous. We make eye contact to show the talker we are listening. They normally don't. Instead they "grunt" . Though they understand we are Americans are used to that so they deal with it. Edited November 23, 2009 by princessgianna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='princessgianna' date='22 November 2009 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1258944818' post='2007679'] It means that both people are bowing. You have to realize that a bow between a Japanese and a Japanese as opposed to a Japanese to a non Japanese is handled different. And a bow between Emperor and the American President should be slight because they both are leaders. If anything the Emperor would do a deeper bow- because the Japanese are very humble people. And most likely the Emperor did not return the bow because they were in a middle of a handshake. And it would not be proper to bow in the middle of that. All eye contact is actaully bad. It makes the Japanese nervous. We make eye contact to show the talker we are listening. They normally don't. Instead they "grunt" . Though they understand we are Americans are used to that so they deal with it. [/quote] Hm...... interesting. Now what if you're not bowing to one person in particular, but rather to a group of people? Same general rules as if it was a single person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I think he should have done the hokey pokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' date='22 November 2009 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1258942855' post='2007642'] It is a sign of servitude. [/quote] For a start I'm pretty sure in most Asian cultures it's a sign of respect, not servitude. Even if it were what does it matter? I'm sure that wasn't Obama's intention. It's just a bow, if that's the worst foreign policy screw up Obama makes then he's doing legions better than Bush and most other politicians. Edited November 23, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 It's not about feeling superior, it is about not being subservient. When Katherine Hepburn was doing a play in England, the Queen's assistant came and asked if the Queen could visit her in her dressing room. She said to tell Mrs. Mountbatten that she would be very pleased to have her come to call. The assistant was completely freaked out and said that the Queen is never referred to in that way. Ms. Hepburn then said that we had fought a war about titles and such. She was an old New England Yankee, and wasn't going to budge an inch. I understand they had a nice chat though. I wish I could have been in the room at the time. By the way, I have no issue with royalty. I will be pledging allegiance to HRH in about a year when I take Canadian Citizenship. The issue isn't about individuals, it is about symbols as old as the US. People fought and died for the right to no longer bend their knees to any monarch. Surely other countries have symbolic things just as important to them, that would seem quite strange or even insulting to Americans. When one takes on the title of President of the United States, he/she takes on the responsibilities and protocols of the rank. He disrespects everyone who has held that position every time he breaks long held accepted protocols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 i think he bowed because someone obviously instructed him to bow...you know, protocol...but he probably didn't do it right...you know, he's really not omniscient as the media would like you to believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='dominicansoul' date='22 November 2009 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1258948990' post='2007734'] i think he bowed because someone obviously instructed him to bow...you know, protocol...but he probably didn't do it right...you know, he's really not omniscient as the media would like you to believe... [/quote] Clearly, who ever gave him instructions to bow did not understand American presidential protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' date='22 November 2009 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1258948886' post='2007732'] . . . When one takes on the title of President of the United States, he/she takes on the responsibilities and protocols of the rank. He disrespects everyone who has held that position every time he breaks long held accepted protocols. [/quote] Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestertonian Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' date='22 November 2009 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1258948886' post='2007732'] It's not about feeling superior, it is about not being subservient. When Katherine Hepburn was doing a play in England, the Queen's assistant came and asked if the Queen could visit her in her dressing room. She said to tell Mrs. Mountbatten that she would be very pleased to have her come to call. The assistant was completely freaked out and said that the Queen is never referred to in that way. Ms. Hepburn then said that we had fought a war about titles and such. She was an old New England Yankee, and wasn't going to budge an inch. I understand they had a nice chat though. I wish I could have been in the room at the time. By the way, I have no issue with royalty. I will be pledging allegiance to HRH in about a year when I take Canadian Citizenship. The issue isn't about individuals, it is about symbols as old as the US. People fought and died for the right to no longer bend their knees to any monarch. Surely other countries have symbolic things just as important to them, that would seem quite strange or even insulting to Americans. When one takes on the title of President of the United States, he/she takes on the responsibilities and protocols of the rank. He disrespects everyone who has held that position every time he breaks long held accepted protocols. [/quote] Very well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Interesting enough, if memory serves, in the ancient dynasties the Emperor of Japan claimed to be a god. So there were very detailed bowing rituals, when approaching the Emperor. Such detail rituals with one error the servant could lose his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I believe one of the stipulations of the Japanese surrender after WWII was that the emperor cease claiming divinity, so this is a very recent development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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