Deserving Of Death Penalty?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='King's Rook's Pawn' date='22 November 2009 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1258925277' post='2007406']
If I were in charge of a justice system, I would resign. In the end, these things should be decided by competing individuals and institutions in a free and voluntary society, not by a monopolistic, enforced, territorial "system." Also, in a free and voluntary society, all streets would be owned by private individuals; there would be none I could allow him on without the consent of the owner.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, we live in a fallen world. Your thoughts, while ideal, cannot be realistically applied.

[Anomaly]

I'm sorry. King thought this question was for him. It isn't.

Where was Jesus for the little 9 year old girl and her parents? How does God's justice work for her, her siblings, her parents, her grandparents?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='22 November 2009 - 05:08 PM' timestamp='1258934933' post='2007556']
I'm sorry. King thought this question was for him. It isn't.

Where was Jesus for the little 9 year old girl and her parents? How does God's justice work for her, her siblings, her parents, her grandparents?
[/quote]
Where was Jesus when I broke my back and was paralyzed for eight months?

Where was Jesus when my father died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 58?

Where was Jesus when my grand aunt was killed by a drunk driver in a head on collision?

Where was Jesus when my aunt was diagnosed with breast cancer?

Where was He in all these times? . . . where He always is . . . comforting those who suffer.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Apotheoun

[HisChildForever]

I would like to add that God does not - and will not - interfere with our free will.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='King's Rook's Pawn' date='21 November 2009 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1258833478' post='2006969']
But they're still dangerous. Is that not your argument: we need to execute these guys because they're dangerous? And maybe car drivers are putting people at unnecessary risk and are therefore acting immorally.



[i]Everyone[/i] poses some risk to society. How do you know you won't just snap one day, get a gun, and shoot up a gas station? How do you know that I won't? If we wanted to make sure that the world is absolutely safe from [i]all[/i] potential criminals, we would have to wipe out the human race.
[/quote]

The difference is that the criminals in question have a proven track record of being dangerous to society. I don't.

Any other simple concepts that I need to explain to you, like "a", "an", or "the"?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 November 2009 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1258935424' post='2007565']
Where was Jesus when I broke my back and was paralyzed for eight months?

Where was Jesus when my father died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 58?

Where was Jesus when my grand aunt was killed by a drunk driver in a head on collision?

Where was Jesus when my aunt was diagnosed with breast cancer?

Where was He in all these times? . . . where He always is . . . comforting those who suffer.
[/quote]Platitudes. What comfort did she get as she suffucated? Maybe she was lucky enough to be dead or unconscious as she was then stabbed. Platitudes. Unless you earned something from performing religion checklists! What could you get?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='22 November 2009 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1258945072' post='2007685']
Platitudes. What comfort did she get as she suffucated? Maybe she was lucky enough to be dead or unconscious as she was then stabbed. Platitudes. Unless you earned something from performing religion checklists! What could you get?
[/quote]
Heaven.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='22 November 2009 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1258945072' post='2007685']
Platitudes.
[/quote]
By the way, the physical and emotional pains I have suffered during my life, and those experienced by the members of my family, are not platitudes, nor is the response of faith a platitude.

[Saint Therese]

Aren't we all guilty? We all deserve the death penalty; but for christians Jesus already paid that price.
When I see someone who comitted a horrible crime I feel really humbled. I think, there go I but for the grace of God. Why did God give me the grace to lead a (somewhat) moral life and not that person? May God be praised forever for His mercy.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='22 November 2009 - 11:00 PM' timestamp='1258945253' post='2007688']
Heaven.
[/quote]
Really now? Was she baptized? Was she Catholic? What did her parents teach her about God? What religion did she belong to? Did failures of her parents condemen her to hell? After all, she was 9, not 4. What about the torment her parents are going through right now.

I don't want to sound completely un-symptathatic or lacking in empathy, Apo, but I've got the same sort of tragic life experiences personally and in my family as well. All I've seen the Church respond with is platitudes. No comfort, no graces, no peace, just unrelieved mental, spiritual, torture through the last shuddering breath while weak and wicked men with odd collars stand around and offer weak platitudes and warnings of oblivion. Maybe not the experience you've got, but reality none the less. Even Mother Thersa died in anguish and fear. Now there's love for you.

So really, what comfort is God going to give the parents or gave the girl? Is it just bad luck that they grew up with Methodist grandparents or parents that didn't go to church or their uncle was one of the unfortunates that was abused by someone in the clergy (of any denomination?). Or maybe they were on the wrong end of a bet between the devil and god as the chased little creatures with a magnifying glass in the sun?


Therese,
So we're all guilty? Who did I kill? Which one of my kids did I blast their brains out? Which random passerby did I torture to see what it feels like?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='23 November 2009 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1259002159' post='2007980']
I don't want to sound completely un-symptathatic or lacking in empathy, Apo, but I've got the same sort of tragic life experiences personally and in my family as well. All I've seen the Church respond with is platitudes. No comfort, no graces, no peace, just unrelieved mental, spiritual, torture through the last shuddering breath while weak and wicked men with odd collars stand around and offer weak platitudes and warnings of oblivion. Maybe not the experience you've got, but reality none the less. Even Mother Thersa died in anguish and fear. Now there's love for you.
[/quote]
Where do you want peace to come from? Life is hard, death is hard, and nothing is going to change that. Do you want it to be for something? Do you want there to be a greater meaning? Or do you just want it to hurt less?

Death is horrible and frightening and often messy. A lot of the time, so is life. The Church doesn't say that this isn't so. She says that that's not all. What do you say?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='23 November 2009 - 03:03 PM' timestamp='1259002993' post='2007997']
Where do you want peace to come from? Life is hard, death is hard, and nothing is going to change that. Do you want it to be for something? Do you want there to be a greater meaning? Or do you just want it to hurt less?

Death is horrible and frightening and often messy. A lot of the time, so is life. The Church doesn't say that this isn't so. She says that that's not all. What do you say?
[/quote]Kewl. So that's the conversation you'd have with the 9 year old's parents. How can they find meaning out of their daughter being murdered by a sociopath? Turning to religion and finding out it's too bad she wasn't Catholic?

You're exactly right. Life is hard and death is hard. Ain't nothing going to change those facts, including Catholic's Holy Mother Church, Pentacostal's turn or burn good news, Mormon's lottery for 144k luckies, or the specific flavor of Baptist. It's True that placebo's aren't really ineffective if you believe they work.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Anomaly

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Saint Therese' date='22 November 2009 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1258947103' post='2007710']
Aren't we all guilty? [/quote]

NO!!!!!!!

As Anomaly stated:


[quote name='Anomaly' date='23 November 2009 - 01:49 PM' timestamp='1259002159' post='2007980']
So we're all guilty? Who did I kill? Which one of my kids did I blast their brains out? Which random passerby did I torture to see what it feels like?
[/quote]

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='23 November 2009 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1259006598' post='2008052']
Kewl. So that's the conversation you'd have with the 9 year old's parents. How can they find meaning out of their daughter being murdered by a sociopath? Turning to religion and finding out it's too bad she wasn't Catholic?

You're exactly right. Life is hard and death is hard. Ain't nothing going to change those facts, including Catholic's Holy Mother Church, Pentacostal's turn or burn good news, Mormon's lottery for 144k luckies, or the specific flavor of Baptist. It's True that placebo's aren't really ineffective if you believe they work.
[/quote]
Of course I wouldn't say that to the 9 year old girl's parents. I'm saying it to you.

So what exactly are you looking for then? Why are you angry about what we say, when really, you can't say anything different? All you can offer to that family is "your 9 year old daughter is now oblivion." (If that isn't your belief, I sincerely apologize.)

Yea, there's a lot about existence that really smells of elderberries. We believe that there's more to it, and you don't. Your worldview is every bit as empty as you claim ours is, except the difference is that we don't actually believe it to be empty at all. Do you really have a problem with that?

Or would you rather we lied and said "that girl is most certainly in heaven and you will be too, because everybody is perfect exactly the way they are"?



By the way I want to be clear that I'm not trying to sound disrespectful. I'm going to challenge what you're saying, because I respect that you'll read it the right way. So no offense intended.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Anomaly' date='23 November 2009 - 03:03 PM' timestamp='1259006598' post='2008052']
How can they find meaning out of their daughter being murdered by a sociopath?
[/quote]

The murderer, while obviously mentally sick, is not a sociopath. You have to be at least eighteen years old to be diagnosed as one.