A Question...out Of Curiosity

[organwerke]

I know many of you know religious life.
I would ask, out of curiosity, if you know how does it work that period ususally called "candidacy"?
Is it obligatory in every order? Or a person can be immediately accepted to postulancy?
And, another question: how does it cost, in terms of money, the phormation period before novitiate?
Do you know if there is a general rule or every order has its habits?
Does it still exist that thing once called "dowry"?
Thanks!

[HisChild]

You are asking a valid question but unfortunately it's not one that can be answer to apply to every order across the board.

I will use Carmelite nuns as one example because there are many of them here in the US. Some require that you do a live-in, or an aspirancy. Some state that doing so breaks up the flow of the cloistered life and do not allow live-ins.

Some require a certain period of writing and/or visiting before you can apply. Some don't.

With the Sisters of Life (and this was 15 years ago so their practices may have changed), we had to be insured for the 6 months of our postulancy and had to have money to pay for all our medical expenses if needed, so there was a dowry of sorts... BUT if an applicant didn't have money, that wouldn't necessarily preclude her from applying. With the PCPA, I think I was insured for three months, but I had some money leftover (very little) from the sale of my house that I didn't worry about it, and to be honest, it wasn't discussed. At least, not the insurance part. I still had to come laden with socks, shoes, shirts, etc.

Sooooo, I guess the best way to answer your question is to say that every order and sometimes every community within the order has their own practices and their own requirements. Most, if not all, have some leeway with money. Meaning that if you didn't have enough money to enter, you wouldn't be forbidden from doing so.

[laetitia crucis]

In the order I was with there was no period of "candidacy" -- as soon as you enter, you become a postulant.

However, I've seen with other orders a period of candidacy. For example, I think with the [url="http://www.capuchinsisters.com"]Capuchin Sisters of Nazareth[/url], once one is seriously discerning with them, she is called a "Candidate", and once she actually enters, she becomes a postulant. (??) I believe the Missionaries of Charity have this along with another period of "pre-aspirancy" and "aspirancy" before the postulancy. And I think the [url="http://www.franciscansisterscfr.com/"]Franciscans of the Renewal[/url] also have a "candidacy" period when one enters and later becomes a postulant. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. )

Hmmm... I do believe it's somewhat more common for orders to have a period of "aspirancy". At least, it seems I've been seeing it around more often as of late.

As to how much it costs -- this is something I'm not familiar with. With the orders I've seriously discerned with, there was never anything about costs, or a dowry. But one of my friends entered the [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=79684"]Dominican Sisters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist[/url] about two-three years ago and she told me she [b]did [/b]have a "dowry" which was basically to cover the cost of her health insurance. Soo.. I assume it's just different for different communities.

Good questions! I'd be interested in hearing from others' experiences, too.

[EJames2]

Every Community in some form or another requires a time of Candidacy or called Observership, usually one month or more of living more connected, involved with Community life, to help discernment.
No community can legally charge for formation, any monetary amount.
You can give away your goods to the poor AFTER vows, or to the Community itself.
pax

[quote name='organwerke' date='20 November 2009 - 06:08 AM' timestamp='1258722529' post='2006151']
I know many of you know religious life.
I would ask, out of curiosity, if you know how does it work that period ususally called "candidacy"?
Is it obligatory in every order? Or a person can be immediately accepted to postulancy?
And, another question: how does it cost, in terms of money, the phormation period before novitiate?
Do you know if there is a general rule or every order has its habits?
Does it still exist that thing once called "dowry"?
Thanks!
[/quote]

[organwerke]

Thank you very much for your anwers!
Well, in fact I thought that every community had its habits but that in general every one had a sort of "pre-postulancy".
In particular I worried if a person can do discernment while working, or if I (not myself, I speak in general) decide to apply an Order, I live in also during the "aspirancy".
Of course I know you don't "pay" for phormation, but I think that it is fair to pay at least for the maintenance during this period.
I also think that the "aspirancy" is different in young communities and in "old" ones.
For example I know a young community in my country whose aspirancy should last at least six months...
I know that in the first period also Missionaries of Charity had a candidacy period of six months, but then this changed and now I think aspirancy is much shorter.

[Thomist-in-Training]

One can discern while working, etc. Some people work right almost up until entering.

There are 3 uses I'd say of 'aspirant' (and 'pre-postulant')

1. Someone who has decided to enter a community and is still at home until then. Equivalent to "hoping/waiting to enter." This use is informal mostly.

2. Someone making a period of discernment in the community, esp. with a cloistered community--a long, serious visit inside, from which one goes home afterwards to think about it. For example I think the Summit Dominicans invite young women who are seriously discerning to come for three weeks(ish?), often in the summer, and then go home again. May or may not be followed by entering the community later.

3. Someone in the first stage of community life, who has entered intending to leave her home for good, followed by postulancy, then novitiate, etc.

So, it depends on the community whether someone who is working would be described as an 'aspirant.'

I don't know if it's you or the f.ilter, but formation is with an F not a PH and we only use a PH for a joke


[quote name='organwerke' date='20 November 2009 - 06:41 PM' timestamp='1258760463' post='2006560']
Thank you very much for your anwers!
Well, in fact I thought that every community had its habits but that in general every one had a sort of "pre-postulancy".
In particular I worried if a person can do discernment while working, or if I (not myself, I speak in general) decide to apply an Order, I live in also during the "aspirancy".
Of course I know you don't "pay" for phormation, but I think that it is fair to pay at least for the maintenance during this period.
I also think that the "aspirancy" is different in young communities and in "old" ones.
For example I know a young community in my country whose aspirancy should last at least six months...
I know that in the first period also Missionaries of Charity had a candidacy period of six months, but then this changed and now I think aspirancy is much shorter.
[/quote]

*edit. P.S. Not every community has one. Sometimes you jump right into postulancy! For men you often jump right into novitiate, or after only a short retreat!

Edited November 21, 2009 by Thomist-in-Training

[organwerke]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='21 November 2009 - 03:10 AM' timestamp='1258765835' post='2006606']


I don't know if it's you or the f.ilter, but formation is with an F not a PH and we only use a PH for a joke

[/quote]

Oh, really?
Thank you for telling, I really thought ph was the correct form, since I read it on the forum!!

And thank you for your useful informations!
In particular I was thinking to my work. I am a teacher, and I think that a teacher can't interrupt the work in any moment during the school year. So, I thought that if a teacher wants to enter a rel. order, she or he could perhaps do a candidacy while working and waiting for the school year's end to enter.
Well, I wasn't thinking to me in specific: I'm not discerning, even if sometimes I think of it...!!

ah, and PS: I know in fact formation periods for men are usually shorter than for women: I think it is so because men have to study a lot to become priests!

[HisChild]

[quote name='Thomist-in-Training' date='20 November 2009 - 06:10 PM' timestamp='1258765835' post='2006606']

*edit. P.S. Not every community has one. Sometimes you jump right into postulancy! For men you often jump right into novitiate, or after only a short retreat!
[/quote]


I noticed that of the Dominican Friars in California where I have a couple of friends. Then I started noticing some of the Dominican Orders of Sisters in that immediate area was picking up on it and doing the same thing. I think it was because the sisters and brothers all do a great deal of their formation together, classes and the like, that they wanted to be on the same page. So when a woman from my parish entered the Oakford Dominicans over there, she had a two week retreat and then was given the option of wearing a habit or no, receiving a religious name or no.

[Starets]

Well, here's how we do it at Christ in the Desert. There is a Candidacy, called an Observership, that lasts at least a month. It can be longer if it is an older person or the community isn't quite sure that you would be good in the community. Or alternatively, if the ovbserver has some doubts about the community! I made a month long observership in 2004. I took two weeks vacation and an additional 2 weeks of unpaid leave of absence from my place of employment in order to manage that. I had to stay "out" for a couple years in order to get debts paid off, but I would spend my vacations there. Or. rather, here!

But it doesn't have to be that way. We do have a postulant who entered right after his candidacy. So there doesn't have to be a huge break. We have someone else currently just finishing up his candidacy. He will be entering the postulancy on December 1.

After the 6 month postulancy is a year long noviciate. Then the juniorate for a minimum of 3 years. Our Lady of the Desert, our sister community of nuns who are now in Gobernador NM, have a 2 year Noviciate. Longer noviciates seem to be the norm at least among Benedictine women. I am not aware of anyone here who has ever gone straight into the Noviciate.

[brightsadness]

I am currently talking with an Eastern Rite women's monastery. The stages of formation are: Candidacy--6 months or more discerning call to life
Postulancy--6 months or more living in community, sharing life receive formation in prayer etc. Novitiate--3 years being formed in prayer , monastic studies, living the life: Perpetual Profession. Monastic profession for life. This is of course in compliance with the Canons of the Eastern Catholic Church. It is what is in the brochure Mother sent me.

[HisChild]

Oh wow, 3 years novitiate and you go straight to professing Perpetual Vows?

I wonder how that works for that community. If it makes a difference in their vocation retention. I don't know how to articulate this... but you know how some sisters will leave during temporary vows, just not renew them but leave instead?

I wonder if professing perpetual vows directly after novitiate somehow 'works' better? It sounds like such a cold, statistical question. But it does pique my curiosity.

[brightsadness]

I think it's based on the Eastern tradition in Monastic Life of being a Novice until the Mothers/Elders decide you're ready to take on the obligations of a monastic. Somehow that has to fit in to the canons of the Catholic Church. In the Orthodox church one is a Rasophore Nun first (less strict obligtions after novice rank. ) Maybe that happens sometime during the novitiate. It's on my list of questions to ask during retreat.[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/saint.gif[/img]

[HisChild]

That's so exciting! I can't wait to hear about your retreat!

[organwerke]

Thank you all very much for all your answers!
And, my best wishes bright. for your retreat! Are you a harpist? I have a friend who is harpist and became a benedectine father!
Anyway, I can't deny that I little envy people who have a clear idea of the order they are called to!
Well, I experienced it too some years ago in my life...but it happened that I wasn't accepted (or, better, I was strongly discouraged, that finally is the same thing!).
I didn't expect this case and I hadn't thought of a second choice!!
I considered a bit also other institutions, but, even if I love many, it didn't happened a second time that I strongly felt: this is MY way, MY charism...in a word, MY HOME!
I have also to say that I am in general a quite undecided person, althought in my indecision, always an idea or a choice prevails.
Well, I don't know how this has to do with the topic I opened!!
It was only a reflection that came to my mind!

[philosophette]

[quote name='organwerke' date='20 November 2009 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1258722529' post='2006151']
I know many of you know religious life.
I would ask, out of curiosity, if you know how does it work that period ususally called "candidacy"?
Is it obligatory in every order? Or a person can be immediately accepted to postulancy?
And, another question: how does it cost, in terms of money, the phormation period before novitiate?
Do you know if there is a general rule or every order has its habits?
Does it still exist that thing once called "dowry"?
Thanks!
[/quote]

Hi, I am a novice with the Salesian Sisters. I can answer your questions in regards to our Institute.

For us, candidacy usually lasts a year, but can be extended if there is a need (the person or community feel that they need more time to discern). For us it is obligatory. Regarding cost, it is good to have some money saved to pay for your personal needs (soap, shoes, shirts... that kind of thing) and to help cover plane tickets for when you go home to visit your family at Christmas and for the summer. This is something that can be dealt with on an individual basis.

After having been through the first two years of formation, I would advise anyone entering religious life to leave some money with your family in case you have any needs. I do not think it is advisable to dispense with everything right away because before the novitiate you are really in discernment about religious life in general and one never knows what God has planned! For us, we are able to keep a bank account until the novitiate. I am sure it is different with other Congregations.

We have no dowry.

Our initial formation is like this: Candidacy (about 1 year or more depending upon the need, but usually only a year), Postulancy (10 months), Novitiate (2 years).