My Position On Abortion

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[quote name='fidei defensor' date='23 November 2009 - 02:32 PM' timestamp='1259001124' post='2007958']
Rather than make fun of my use of words, how about you show me where "pro-choice" is not appropriate to describe what you and I both believe?
[/quote]

look here for appropriate's of your misguided poorly-articulated and unreasonable position stated by you within the context of this tread.
[b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-choice"] link (press here)[/url]
Pro-choice[/b] describes the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics"]political[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics"]ethical[/url] view that a woman should have complete control over her [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertility"]fertility[/url] and the choice to continue or [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion"]terminate[/url] a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy"]pregnancy[/url]. This entails the guarantee of [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_rights"]reproductive rights[/url][/i], which includes access to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_education"]sexual education[/url]; access to safe and legal [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion"]abortion[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception"]contraception[/url], and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infertility#Treatment"]fertility treatments[/url]

Edited November 23, 2009 by apparently

[MissyP89]

Well, fidei, despite all that croutons you're getting I believe that your position was well-articulated and reasonable.

[Nihil Obstat]

Fidei, is it your intention to explain to anyone who asks that you're "pro choice under the following definition: ..."? Or if someone asks do you just say pro choice?
Obviously one of those two possibilities is somewhat cowardly, and not the one I expect. I just wonder why you think it's worthwhile to explain something so convoluted every time it comes up.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='23 November 2009 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1259003741' post='2008011']
Fidei, is it your intention to explain to anyone who asks that you're "pro choice under the following definition: ..."? Or if someone asks do you just say pro choice?
Obviously one of those two possibilities is somewhat cowardly, and not the one I expect. I just wonder why you think it's worthwhile to explain something so convoluted every time it comes up.
[/quote]
I'd rather explain it every time. My opinion is based on what I've spent time considering and I don't feel it's appropriate to just use the blanket "pro-life" label because it doesn't express my reasoning the way I'd like it.

Some are offended by my use of pro-choice, whether they want to admit it or not, because their battle involved demonizing that position, semantics and all. But regardless, I will use that wording and explain it.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='23 November 2009 - 02:19 PM' timestamp='1259007564' post='2008056']
I'd rather explain it every time. My opinion is based on what I've spent time considering and I don't feel it's appropriate to just use the blanket "pro-life" label because it doesn't express my reasoning the way I'd like it.

Some are offended by my use of pro-choice, whether they want to admit it or not, because their battle involved demonizing that position, semantics and all. But regardless, I will use that wording and explain it.
[/quote]
I've got no problem with that label in particular, if you're using it divorced from its connotations. If you're willing to explain it every time, then all the more power to you.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='23 November 2009 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1258998466' post='2007938']
aww, but scanning the first sentence for keywords to make a headline is so much more fun!
[/quote]
That's an ugly rumour.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Winchester' date='23 November 2009 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1259010263' post='2008074']
That's an ugly rumour.
[/quote]
You're an ugly truth.

[Aloysius]

I'm pro gay marriage. all marriages should be happy

[Aloysius]

anyway fidei, under your definition EVERYONE is pro-choice (well, except communist Chinese one child policy people). the aspect that makes you "pro-choice" isn't differentiating at all... you might as well answer, when asked whether you're pro-life or pro-choice, "actually, I'm a human. I believe that people should have the right to choose to have sex to have babies."

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='23 November 2009 - 03:50 PM' timestamp='1258951846' post='2007778']
It's not a contradiction. God gave free will, or so you believe, and humans are free to exercise it. I've already stated my beliefs about it.

Just because you pin a certain belief and attitude to a set of words doesn't mean I do.
[/quote]

Is it necessary to state that the sun rises in the morning before stating what the days weather may be like. That's what you are doing in stating that you are pro choice. Obviously everyone has pro choice by the fact that they choose sex or not, with the exception of rape, but people don't usually go into the finer details when stating a general opinion. I think this thread is a bit long and boring about a triviality. I am only reading it and responding because I am a boring person with nothing better to do.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='23 November 2009 - 03:25 PM' timestamp='1259011548' post='2008085']
anyway fidei, under your definition EVERYONE is pro-choice (well, except communist Chinese one child policy people). the aspect that makes you "pro-choice" isn't differentiating at all... you might as well answer, when asked whether you're pro-life or pro-choice, "actually, I'm a human. I believe that people should have the right to choose to have sex to have babies."
[/quote]
As far as I knew, the tendency was to call them pro-abortion, not pro-choice, because pro-choice mischaracterized the true choices we have.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' date='23 November 2009 - 03:26 PM' timestamp='1259011597' post='2008089']
Obviously everyone has pro choice by the fact that they choose sex or not
[/quote]
That's my point.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='23 November 2009 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1259012241' post='2008098']
As far as I knew, the tendency was to call them pro-abortion, not pro-choice, because pro-choice mischaracterized the true choices we have.
[/quote]
Personally, I always say pro abort for that reason.

[Winchester]

[quote name='apparently' date='23 November 2009 - 01:44 PM' timestamp='1259001880' post='2007975']
look here for appropriate's of your misguided poorly-articulated and unreasonable position stated by you within the context of this tread.
[b][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-choice"] link (press here)[/url]
Pro-choice[/b] describes the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics"]political[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics"]ethical[/url] view that a woman should have complete control over her [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertility"]fertility[/url] and the choice to continue or [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion"]terminate[/url] a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy"]pregnancy[/url]. This entails the guarantee of [i][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproductive_rights"]reproductive rights[/url][/i], which includes access to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_education"]sexual education[/url]; access to safe and legal [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion"]abortion[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraception"]contraception[/url], and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infertility#Treatment"]fertility treatments[/url]
[/quote]
OMG WIKIPEDIA DEFINITION!

Well, wikipedia is certainly the gold standard of semantics.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='fidei defensor' date='20 November 2009 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1258696555' post='2006119']
What I disagree with:
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[*]Personhood. I embrace life as an inalienable right that should never be taken away. However, in the Catholic argument, having a soul plays a major role in the inalienable right - God granted a soul. I think more of an effort needs to be made in regards to how pro-choice persons use "personhood" as a qualifier, not for the sake of agreement but to better understand their argument in an effort to persuade them. Personhood refers to when the fetus becomes a viable member of society, rather than just a living organism that it became at conception. Usually personhood can be equated with ensoulment, which for Catholics, happens at conception. However, the secular view is usually that personhood beings when the fetus is viable outside of the womb. I DO NOT WANT TO DEBATE THIS POINT. I am just pointing it out so that you can understand the difference in opinion. Again, a useful debate is about the issues, not calling people murderers.
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[/quote]
There is value in describing personhood as the moment body and soul become one, but the civically more important point of proving personhood is its legal ramifications. In the American legal system, anything deemed having personhood is then granted all rights and privileges of a citizen, including a right to life. If the Supreme Court can say corporations have personhood (Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railroad in 1886), why not the unborn? Sometimes I think the Supreme Court has done more damage to our nation than the worst congress.