"venerable" John Paul Ii Decree Goes To Pope

[cappie]

Reports say the Congregation for the Causes of the Saints has approved a draft decree for submission to Pope Benedict recognising the "heroic virtues" of the late Pope John Paul II and declaring him "venerable".

The congregation's decisions are not normally announced publicly, but Vatican sources said the congregation had given its approval for the beatification process to proceed after a day of discussion and a unanimous vote, ABC News reports.

The congregation's decision will now be sent to Pope Benedict who has to sign the decree that confirms his predecessor's "heroic virtues" and declares him "venerable."

[url="http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2009/11/pope-john-paul-iis-sainthood-on-fast-track.html"]http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2009/11/pope-john-paul-iis-sainthood-on-fast-track.html[/url]

Edited November 18, 2009 by cappie

[mommas_boy]

Edited November 18, 2009 by mommas_boy

[zunshynn]

I thought he's been venerable for a while?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='18 November 2009 - 06:29 PM' timestamp='1258594186' post='2005227']
I thought he's been venerable for a while?
[/quote]
Evidently not.

[Dave]

I realize this may open up a can of worms here ...

But if Pope John Paul II, God willing, gets canonized, do you think that further division in the Church might happen? Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see him get canonized (if it's God's will), but I know there are lots of traditionalist Catholics who don't have any good things to say about him (and whose accusations we're probably all familiar with). If it does happen, does anyone think that the number of sedevacantists will increase big-time? I mean, it's quite likely that many SSPXers and other traditionalists (both within the Church and without) might consider Rome to have officially apostasized should John Paul II be canonized. Of course, that wouldn't be Rome or the Church's fault; it would be the fault of those who think they know better than the Church about who's worthy of canonization. Even so, it's just something I've wondered about. Thoughts?

Edited November 19, 2009 by Dave

[CatherineM]

I hope not, but I was surprised at how heated the debate about his canonization was here. I didn't know there was an issue before then.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Dave' date='19 November 2009 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1258602573' post='2005409']
I realize this may open up a can of worms here ...

But if Pope John Paul II, God willing, gets canonized, do you think that further division in the Church might happen? Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see him get canonized (if it's God's will), but I know there are lots of traditionalist Catholics who don't have any good things to say about him (and whose accusations we're probably all familiar with). If it does happen, does anyone think that the number of sedevacantists will increase big-time? I mean, it's quite likely that many SSPXers and other traditionalists (both within the Church and without) might consider Rome to have officially apostasized should John Paul II be canonized. Of course, that wouldn't be Rome or the Church's fault; it would be the fault of those who think they know better than the Church about who's worthy of canonization. Even so, it's just something I've wondered about. Thoughts?
[/quote]

Can't one be a saint and still make mistakes? I mean, St Teresa of Avila is a Doctor of the Church but she was also anti-semitic in some ways and very non-pc in her visions (seeing the demons as "little negroes" I think she said). She was still a very holy woman. So perhaps John Paul II is being venerated for his virtues and holiness and not for his stance on anything else?

Edited November 19, 2009 by nunsense

[zunshynn]

I think anyone that is that vehemently against Pope John Paul II is unlikely to be that close to reconciling with the Church anyway.

[Aloysius]

I think most of those types will accept the canonization like they've accepted most canonizations in the post-council Church. if the proliferation of canonizations hasn't already sent them sedevacantist, they likely believe something to the effect that while all canonized saints are in heaven because canonization is protected by infallibility, post-conciliar saints are often ones who would have been non-popular saints in heaven according to pre-conciliar standards. I think the ones who are not already sedevacantists are perfectly fine seeing John Paul II as having gone to heaven... the only reason they wouldn't be okay with it is if they thought he was a formal heretic in which case they'd have already been sedevacantist in the first place. they'll never praise the papacy of John Paul II or call him "the Great" and probably won't develop any type of devotion to him, but I don't think his canonization is likely to make anyone a sedevacantist who wasn't one already.

[JimR-OCDS]

There were many at Catholic Answers, who not only opposed JPII's canonization, but were outright nasty in their words about him.

I was amazed.

To me, he will be, St. John Paul the Great.


Jim

[MissyP89]

Melissa P. likes this.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='19 November 2009 - 06:55 AM' timestamp='1258635334' post='2005517']
I think most of those types will accept the canonization like they've accepted most canonizations in the post-council Church. if the proliferation of canonizations hasn't already sent them sedevacantist, they likely believe something to the effect that while all canonized saints are in heaven because canonization is protected by infallibility, post-conciliar saints are often ones who would have been non-popular saints in heaven according to pre-conciliar standards. I think the ones who are not already sedevacantists are perfectly fine seeing John Paul II as having gone to heaven... the only reason they wouldn't be okay with it is if they thought he was a formal heretic in which case they'd have already been sedevacantist in the first place. they'll never praise the papacy of John Paul II or call him "the Great" and probably won't develop any type of devotion to him, but I don't think his canonization is likely to make anyone a sedevacantist who wasn't one already.
[/quote]
I wonder if anyone on the other end of the spectrum would break if the canonization process happens to stall indefinitely for whatever reason.

Is there a process where the cause for canonization is officially closed? I've never heard about it happening.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Dave' date='18 November 2009 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1258602573' post='2005409']
I realize this may open up a can of worms here ...

But if Pope John Paul II, God willing, gets canonized, do you think that further division in the Church might happen? Don't get me wrong; I'd love to see him get canonized (if it's God's will), but I know there are lots of traditionalist Catholics who don't have any good things to say about him (and whose accusations we're probably all familiar with). If it does happen, does anyone think that the number of sedevacantists will increase big-time? I mean, it's quite likely that many SSPXers and other traditionalists (both within the Church and without) might consider Rome to have officially apostasized should John Paul II be canonized. Of course, that wouldn't be Rome or the Church's fault; it would be the fault of those who think they know better than the Church about who's worthy of canonization. Even so, it's just something I've wondered about. Thoughts?
[/quote]

If he is declared a saint, the prayers offered through his intercession will do more good than all the evil done by those who are already at odds with God in spirit and would declare themselves against the Church.

Unity is necessary, but we should not keep from doing what is right just to appease those who oppose authentic unity in the first place and only seek reunion on their terms.

Santo Subito!

[Apotheoun]

I do not see why his canonization in the Roman Rite would be a cause for ecclesial division. Besides no one has to have devotion to a particular saint.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='19 November 2009 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1258656763' post='2005655']
I do not see why his canonization in the Roman Rite would be a cause for ecclesial division. Besides no one has to have devotion to a particular saint.
[/quote]

Because there are those who can't wrap their minds around the idea, that Pope John Paul II, kissed the Koran a Cleric handed him out of respect, and not that he was embracing Islamic doctrine.


Jim

Edited November 19, 2009 by JimR-OCDS