OraProMe Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Can you explain why you actually think an eternally painful and horrible existence is better than non-existence? Preferably with reason and logic (seem you are a human...I think) rather than references to Eastern theology. It just doesn't make sense to me and, apparently, a lot of other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 okay, I assure you I know that you all are more knowledgeable about this and many other things so I won't raise objections here, but this thread has officially gotten far too strange for me to keep following... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='15 November 2009 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1258336976' post='2003454'] Can you explain why you actually think an eternally painful and horrible existence is better than non-existence? Preferably with reason and logic (seem you are a human...I think) rather than references to Eastern theology. It just doesn't make sense to me and, apparently, a lot of other people. [/quote] The pain is a subjective quality, while the good of existence is an objective reality. So the pain of being, even the self-inflicted pain experienced by the damned, is a good. While nothing is not a good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='15 November 2009 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1258337052' post='2003455'] okay, I assure you I know that you all are more knowledgeable about this and many other things so I won't raise objections here, but this thread has officially gotten far too strange for me to keep following... [/quote] Many things in life are strange. I thought the idea that man could be divinized was strange until about 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 November 2009 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1258337217' post='2003457'] Many things in life are strange. I thought the idea that man could be divinized was strange until about 15 years ago. [/quote] Well its best to just leave it at that. Some of these ideas are so far beyond what I consider Catholicism to teach (coincidentally, you can add the idea of the divination of man to that list) that I just can't even conceive of its possibility at this time. Maybe when I've grown up a little and had time to let some of this soak in. I definitely respect your intellect on these things though, peace. Edited November 16, 2009 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' date='15 November 2009 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1258338069' post='2003463'] Well its best to just leave it at that. Some of these ideas are so far beyond what I consider Catholicism to teach (coincidentally, you can add the idea of the divination of man to that list) that I just can't even conceive of its possibility at this time. Maybe when I've grown up a little and had time to let some of this soak in. . . . [/quote] There is nothing wrong with moving at your own pace. I did not start reading St. Maximos the Confessor's writings until 2001, and I was surprised by much of what I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jon Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 November 2009 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1258324873' post='2003347'] Hell, according to the Fathers, is preferable to non-existence, because existence is a participation in the eternal being of God. [/quote] I am way too self-centered - picture George Lopez running from pain ---that would be me ---offered non-existence - I'd grab the ticket from the person's hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacredheartandbloodofjesus Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I personally would rather not exist then exist in Hell for eternity. Because for eternity you shall suffer the worst pains physically and spiritually and not be able to use these sufferings for good but rather despise these suffering in your eternal unhappiness and be full of regret and despair.....FOR EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jon Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='15 November 2009 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1258333049' post='2003416'] I would rather be nothing than suffer the eternal torments of Hell. Not only because of the brutal pain, but because if I'm in Hell, that means I've rejected God. Therefore I would rather be nothing than be someone who rejected God. [/quote] You shoot from the hip and call it how it is - I'm liking your posts. No high falooten intellectual quotes from you ---just pure street smarts. It's a gift. You go girl. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jon Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='goldenchild17' date='15 November 2009 - 08:04 PM' timestamp='1258337052' post='2003455'] okay, I assure you I know that you all are more knowledgeable about this and many other things so I won't raise objections here, but this thread has officially gotten far too strange for me to keep following... [/quote] And that coming from someone with a picture hanging to the left of our screen...Ha -LOL! That was great, bro. Jon PS Nice little snow, eh? Careful tomorrow morning. Edited November 16, 2009 by Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='Jon' date='15 November 2009 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1258339160' post='2003475'] You shoot from the hip and call it how it is - I'm liking your posts. No high falooten intellectual quotes from you ---just pure street smarts. It's a gift. You go girl. Jon [/quote] Thanks doll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HisChildForever Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' date='15 November 2009 - 09:02 PM' timestamp='1258336976' post='2003454'] Can you explain why you actually think an eternally painful and horrible existence is better than non-existence? Preferably with reason and logic (seem you are a human...I think) rather than references to Eastern theology. It just doesn't make sense to me and, apparently, a lot of other people. [/quote] I completely agree. The references to Eastern theology are intelligent but borderline robotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' date='15 November 2009 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1258339834' post='2003481'] I completely agree. The references to Eastern theology are intelligent but borderline robotic. [/quote] I agree, as well. If I wanted to know what the "Fathers" had to say, I'd look it up. How about some genuine thought on the matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='15 November 2009 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1258337119' post='2003456'] The pain is a subjective quality, [/quote] If Hell exists then in what sense are the pains of hell (which is primarily separation from God and secondly actual fire) subjective? What do you mean by the word subjective in this context? [quote] while the good of existence is an objective reality. [/quote] How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OraProMe Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) [quote name='fidei defensor' date='15 November 2009 - 10:01 PM' timestamp='1258340492' post='2003487'] I agree, as well. If I wanted to know what the "Fathers" had to say, I'd look it up. How about some genuine thought on the matter? [/quote] Nothing turns people off religion like a believer spewing out thoughts and opinions, none of which are theirs. Edited November 16, 2009 by OraProMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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