Sternhauser Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) I'm going to play the "Pat Tillman's Brother" card, now. This is a letter Pat Tillman's brother, Kevin, wrote. (After the death of his brother, the circumstances of which were deliberately covered up by the military chain of command.) [b]Happy Birthday, Pat Tillman[/b] [b][url="http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20091106_happy_birthday_pat_tillman/"]http://www.truthdig....ay_pat_tillman/[/url][/b] <h4 class="date">Posted on Nov 6, 2009</h4>[font="georgia, times new roman, times, serif"] By Kevin Tillman [i]Editor'snote: Pat Tillman would have been 33 years old today. We at Truthdig wish to commemorate his life by republishing an article by his brother,Kevin Tillman. Tillman's story speaks volumes not just about those we have lost, but about a history of lies, deceits and cover-ups that have helped to perpetuate war and kill thousands of U.S., coalition, Iraqi and Afghan people. As we await a decision by President Barack Obama,being pressed by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, on whether or not to send more troops to Afghanistan, we can remind ourselves of the life that Pat Tillman led and let it guide us to better understand both the conflict in Afghanistan and its consequences. [/i] [i]Kevin Tillman joined the Army with Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. The government deceived his family—and the nation—about the circumstances of his death for five weeks.McChrystal, who led the Joint Special Operations Command, of which Pat was a member, was central to the top-level military deceit in Tillman's death through his fast-tracking of a fraudulent Silver Star medal recommendation and later warning in a high-priority memo of possible "public embarrassment if the circumstances of Corporal Tillman's death become public." Not when, but "if." [/i] [i]Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, wrote a powerful, must-read document on the occasion of Pat's birthday anniversary in 2006.[/i] It is Pat's birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. [b]It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Patbefore we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signingthe papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown ina direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leaveus without a voice… until we got out. [/b] [b]Much has happened since we handed over our voice:[/b] Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. [b]Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few "bad apples" in themilitary.[/b] Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It's interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat. [b]Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes. [/b] Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground. Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started. Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated. Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated. [b]Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.[/b] Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated. [b]Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.[/b] Somehow torture is tolerated. Somehow lying is tolerated. [b]Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. [/b] [b]Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.[/b] Somehow a narrative is more important than reality. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. [b]Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world .[/b] Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance. Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow this is tolerated. Somehow nobody is accountable for this. [Sternhauser's note: [i]Certainly [/i]not those who wage the war knowing these things are the case!] In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don't be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that "somehow" was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable tounchecked, unchallenged parasites. Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat's birthday. Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman, Kevin Tillman [/font] [Sternhauser's note: Unfortunately, Kevin, you won't change the nature of the coercive State by changing the politicians, just like you don't change the nature of a concentration camp by changing the kommandant and planting flowers around the gas chambers.] ~Sternhauser Edited November 16, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' date='15 November 2009 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1258330311' post='2003389'] let's just focus on your illogic Stern. If you honestly don't believe that your freedoms are being protected, then what do you think would happen if we did not have the army, navy, marines, air force and national guard? What do you honestly think would happen if we did not have a defense? Now what would have happened if we had no national defense after the civil war? I am on record for not supporting the invasion in Iraq. But I understand and respect the fact that the armed services are there to protect me and my freedom. And if they weren't there, our country would not exist. [/quote] we'll try this again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='15 November 2009 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1258335405' post='2003444'] The most ironic part of this topic is that those who tend to get very angry with those who disagree over the military are the same people who distrust everything else the government does. I guess I don't understand the conservative mind. [/quote] This is something that has baffled me for a long time. I haven't read enough of this thread, but I see this in so many of the debates about war during campaigns and whatnot. Ron Paul really woke me up to this reality. It makes no sense that someone who wants to limit the size of the government would increase the size of the defense budget and the military to the size that it has. And yet it's for the most part politicians that 'preach' small government who are using more and more tax dollars to fatten the wallets of private military contractors in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' date='14 November 2009 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1258247151' post='2002938'] That can be said for many jobs that we do to support a family that are quite dangerous. Firemen, Policemen, guys who demolish buildings, miners, high steel workers, sky scraper window cleaners, even taxi drivers in certain cities, do dangerous jobs. They do it because the job as president of microsoft is taken, and their kids need new shoes occasionally. [/quote] I'm not saying I had a criticism of the men and women making that decision based on their need to have a job. What I'm saying is that as a democratic republic, we (the U.S.) ought to take this factor into account when we make the decision (in other words, allow our elected officials to make the decision) of sending our standing military into harm's way, so that we aren't just creating these dangerous and life-risking jobs and careers out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='16 November 2009 - 09:59 AM' timestamp='1258383554' post='2003638'] I'm going to play the "Pat Tillman's Brother" card, now. This is a letter Pat Tillman's brother, Kevin, wrote. (After the death of his brother, the circumstances of which were deliberately covered up by the military chain of command.) [b]Happy Birthday, Pat Tillman[/b] [b][url="http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20091106_happy_birthday_pat_tillman/"]http://www.truthdig....ay_pat_tillman/[/url][/b] <h4 class="date">Posted on Nov 6, 2009</h4>[font="georgia, times new roman, times, serif"] By Kevin Tillman [i]Editor'snote: Pat Tillman would have been 33 years old today. We at Truthdig wish to commemorate his life by republishing an article by his brother,Kevin Tillman. Tillman's story speaks volumes not just about those we have lost, but about a history of lies, deceits and cover-ups that have helped to perpetuate war and kill thousands of U.S., coalition, Iraqi and Afghan people. As we await a decision by President Barack Obama,being pressed by Gen. Stanley McChrystal, on whether or not to send more troops to Afghanistan, we can remind ourselves of the life that Pat Tillman led and let it guide us to better understand both the conflict in Afghanistan and its consequences. [/i] [i]Kevin Tillman joined the Army with Pat in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. The government deceived his family—and the nation—about the circumstances of his death for five weeks.McChrystal, who led the Joint Special Operations Command, of which Pat was a member, was central to the top-level military deceit in Tillman's death through his fast-tracking of a fraudulent Silver Star medal recommendation and later warning in a high-priority memo of possible "public embarrassment if the circumstances of Corporal Tillman's death become public." Not when, but "if." [/i] [i]Kevin, who was discharged in 2005, wrote a powerful, must-read document on the occasion of Pat's birthday anniversary in 2006.[/i] It is Pat's birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. [b]It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Patbefore we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signingthe papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown ina direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leaveus without a voice… until we got out. [/b] [b]Much has happened since we handed over our voice:[/b] Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. [b]Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few "bad apples" in themilitary.[/b] Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It's interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat. [b]Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes. [/b] Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground. Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started. Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated. Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated. [b]Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.[/b] Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated. [b]Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.[/b] Somehow torture is tolerated. Somehow lying is tolerated. [b]Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense. [/b] [b]Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.[/b] Somehow a narrative is more important than reality. Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is. [b]Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world .[/b] Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance. Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow this is tolerated. Somehow nobody is accountable for this. [Sternhauser's note: [i]Certainly [/i]not those who wage the war knowing these things are the case!] In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don't be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that "somehow" was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable tounchecked, unchallenged parasites. Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat's birthday. Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman, Kevin Tillman [/font] [Sternhauser's note: Unfortunately, Kevin, you won't change the nature of the coercive State by changing the politicians, just like you don't change the nature of a concentration camp by changing the kommandant and planting flowers around the gas chambers.] ~Sternhauser [/quote] And this fellow's words hold more weight than anyone else's because... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I am compelled to move this thread to the debate board, and I must say that I consider it likely that this thread will end up closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Closed. general degradation, uncoothness, and obtuseness leading to no viable discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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