Lil Red Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 +J.M.J.+ locally, the police department just conducted compliance checks with businesses that sell alcohol. they send 18 & 19 year olds into businesses to purchase alcohol. if asked, they give their real ID and age. i always hear that these kind of checks are unconstitutional or entrapment. are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' date='11 November 2009 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1257985541' post='2000956'] +J.M.J.+ locally, the police department just conducted compliance checks with businesses that sell alcohol. they send 18 & 19 year olds into businesses to purchase alcohol. if asked, they give their real ID and age. i always hear that these kind of checks are unconstitutional or entrapment. are they? [/quote] If that's not illegal it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='aalpha1989' date='11 November 2009 - 06:37 PM' timestamp='1257986231' post='2000959'] If that's not illegal it should be. [/quote] +J.M.J.+ why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Chris Hanson here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='notardillacid' date='11 November 2009 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1257986640' post='2000963'] Chris Hanson here... [/quote] +J.M.J.+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) LilRed, it's not immoral to sell alcohol to minor. It's merely contrary to statute. It is not Constitutional for Big State officials to do such checks. Read Article 1, Section 8. That's all the power Congress allegedly has. If it's not listed, they allegedly don't have it. Little State officials were never intended to be bound by the Fourth Amendment, (which leaves defining the term "reasonable" up to State officials: never a good move) or any of the Amendments. We can thank a yutz from the 1860's for the farce known as "incorporation." ~Sternhauser Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 This is not legal in Canada, or at least in Alberta. The law is that everyone under 25 must be carded, no matter how old they look, so they send in people between 18 and 25. Legal for them to purchase, but legally the bar or liquor store has to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='notardillacid' date='11 November 2009 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1257986640' post='2000963'] Chris Hanson here... [/quote] why don't you just take a seat over there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I don't see how it is entrapment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='T-Bone _' date='11 November 2009 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1257994983' post='2001046'] I don't see how it is entrapment. [/quote] [img]http://www.koreandivers.com/blog/attach/1/6129317854.jpg[/img] Now picture it wearing a badge. ~Sternhauser Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='T-Bone _' date='11 November 2009 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1257994983' post='2001046'] I don't see how it is entrapment. [/quote] Would you see how a woman offering to fornicate with a man is "leading into sin?" ~Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_miss_late Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I worked in a restaurant where this happened on a pretty regular basis. We were led to understand that usually the kids had gotten into some kind of trouble with law enforcement and were subsequently pushed into helping with the compliance checks. I don't know if that's true. At this restaurant at least, it was pretty easy to tell when a kid was there with the cops vs. when a kid was trying to sneak alcohol. I had friends lose their jobs over this, and get hit- personally- with very heavy fines. Not the restaurant- the waiter. One night there were two especially obnoxious cops who sent a kid in and then shut the whole place down 5 minutes before closing time. Believe me, these checks worked, because of the way that they targeted the employee and not just the business. Some college student working at a gas station at night might not care about whether or not his boss gets fined, but when it's YOU getting arrested and fined, it's a different story. All that being said, I am glad that these compliance checks were done and that the penalties were harsh enough to deter employees from selling to minors. This town was a total stereotype, full of rich kids with no boundaries and no discipline at home. It was one of those towns that made the news because a parent threw a party with alcohol and strippers for her son in high school. There were high school kids in the bars until 2 and 3 am, kids driving drunk, girls who didn't remember who they'd gone home with. Their parents were not taking action to keep them safe. The business owners had no motivation to keep them safe (and actually, the bar owners were happy to have drunk underaged girls there because they draw other people into the bar). Is it ideal that law enforcement had to step in and try to put a stop to the situation, of course not, but was it unreasonable of them to act in the interest of the community's safety, I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' date='11 November 2009 - 08:25 PM' timestamp='1257985541' post='2000956'] +J.M.J.+ locally, the police department just conducted compliance checks with businesses that sell alcohol. they send 18 & 19 year olds into businesses to purchase alcohol. if asked, they give their real ID and age. i always hear that these kind of checks are unconstitutional or entrapment. are they? [/quote] I think they are an excellent idea. If you are not breaking the law you have nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='14 November 2009 - 06:54 PM' timestamp='1258246469' post='2002929'] I think they are an excellent idea. If you are not breaking the law you have nothing to worry about. [/quote] That can be the case for a lot of things in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' date='11 November 2009 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1257986326' post='2000960'] +J.M.J.+ why? [/quote] Because it is comparable, as Sternhauser pointed out, to a woman offering to lead a man into fornication (or a man lead a woman, for that matter). It's intentionally offering a temptation; God does allow us to be tempted for the sake of trial, but those who actually [i]do [/i]the tempting in Scripture are always referred to as [i]Satan[/i]. Satan is in Hell (obviously). Even if the retailer sold alcohol to [i]this[/i] minor, that does not mean that he has done so in the past. If he doesn't sell to this minor, that doesn't mean he hasn't. The law is actually [i]asking[/i] people to do something illegal. You don't see a problem with that? I actually agree with Sternhauser that it is not immoral to sell to minors, but that is a different debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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