Great Article On Dorothy Day In St. Louis Today

[Lounge Daddy]

Here are the first four paragraphs.

[indent][b]Dorothy Day: Giving Proof that the Gospel Can Be Lived[/b]

Dorothy Day was an anarchist and a pacifist who was arrested multiple times throughout her life (the last time when she was in her 70s). The FBI had a 500 page file on her, and Herbert Hoover hoped to see her arrested for sedition. She’s also been called “the most significant, interesting and influential person in the history of American Catholicism” (by historian David O’Brien in “Commonweal” magazine), and the Vatican has approved considering her cause for canonization.

That’s my kind of saint. I love Dorothy Day. In the great communion of saints, there are a handful of people that I look to as my heroes and role models, my “household saints”. Dorothy Day is one of them, and today is her birthday. She was a “sign of contradiction”, “holiness not easily domesticated”, to quote Robert Ellsberg. She managed to defy stereotypes, and confound both supporters and opponents over the course of her life.

Her radical politics came before her conversion to Catholicism, but her political commitments only grew deeper when she came to faith. In the gospel she found a rejection of power, oppression and violence and a call not only to serve the poor, but to be one of them. Her advocacy for justice was now accompanied by a devotion to works of mercy and to life in community. Along with the eccentric French peasant and itinerant teacher Peter Maurin, Dorothy founded the Catholic Worker movement. I am reminded of Frederick Buechner’s line that “God makes saints out of geniuses and sinners because He has nothing else to work with.” I think Dorothy would have enjoyed that, and agreed, seeing what came from the partnership she had with Peter Maurin. There are now over 185 Catholic Worker houses of hospitality, including three in St. Louis, and it all started with soup and coffee in Dorothy’s kitchen.

Dorothy Day never abandoned her anarchism or pacifism. Her politics were a scandal to Christians who felt the church should serve as chaplain to the state and maintain the status quo. Her religion was incomprehensible to the anarchists, Socialists and Communists with whom she’d spent her youth. But Dorothy continued to reach out to both sides, seeing herself as a faithful daughter of the church, and yet a radical called to disturb the comfortable - even when the comfortable were in the pews, or the prelate’s office. And so she often found herself, as she once wrote in her column “On Pilgrimage”, talking “economics to the rich and Jesus to the anarchists.” It wasn’t an easy path.

... [url="http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/civil-religion/catholic/2009/11/dorothy-day-giving-proof-that-the-gospel-can-be-lived/"]rest of the article HERE[/url][/indent]

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='11 November 2009 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1257982440' post='2000936']
Here are the first four paragraphs.

[indent][b]Dorothy Day: Giving Proof that the Gospel Can Be Lived[/b]

Dorothy Day was an anarchist and a pacifist who was arrested multiple times throughout her life (the last time when she was in her 70s). The FBI had a 500 page file on her, and Herbert Hoover hoped to see her arrested for sedition. She's also been called "the most significant, interesting and influential person in the history of American Catholicism" (by historian David O'Brien in "Commonweal" magazine), and the Vatican has approved considering her cause for canonization.

That's my kind of saint. I love Dorothy Day. In the great communion of saints, there are a handful of people that I look to as my heroes and role models, my "household saints". Dorothy Day is one of them, and today is her birthday. She was a "sign of contradiction", "holiness not easily domesticated", to quote Robert Ellsberg. She managed to defy stereotypes, and confound both supporters and opponents over the course of her life.

Her radical politics came before her conversion to Catholicism, but her political commitments only grew deeper when she came to faith. In the gospel she found a rejection of power, oppression and violence and a call not only to serve the poor, but to be one of them. Her advocacy for justice was now accompanied by a devotion to works of mercy and to life in community. Along with the eccentric French peasant and itinerant teacher Peter Maurin, Dorothy founded the Catholic Worker movement. I am reminded of Frederick Buechner's line that "God makes saints out of geniuses and sinners because He has nothing else to work with." I think Dorothy would have enjoyed that, and agreed, seeing what came from the partnership she had with Peter Maurin. There are now over 185 Catholic Worker houses of hospitality, including three in St. Louis, and it all started with soup and coffee in Dorothy's kitchen.

Dorothy Day never abandoned her anarchism or pacifism. Her politics were a scandal to Christians who felt the church should serve as chaplain to the state and maintain the status quo. Her religion was incomprehensible to the anarchists, Socialists and Communists with whom she'd spent her youth. But Dorothy continued to reach out to both sides, seeing herself as a faithful daughter of the church, and yet a radical called to disturb the comfortable - even when the comfortable were in the pews, or the prelate's office. And so she often found herself, as she once wrote in her column "On Pilgrimage", talking "economics to the rich and Jesus to the anarchists." It wasn't an easy path.

... [url="http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/civil-religion/catholic/2009/11/dorothy-day-giving-proof-that-the-gospel-can-be-lived/"]rest of the article HERE[/url][/indent]
[/quote]

An anarchist declared a "Servant of God" by the Vatican? That's heresy against the religion of Statism!

~Sternhauser

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Era Might]

Dorothy Day was an amazing woman. I don't know how much I would agree with her politics, but I think the essential thing she stood for was community. She was all about building community, which I think we have lost in modern society. As De La Soul say in one of their songs, "Neighborhoods are now 'hoods / 'Cause nobody's neighbors / Just animals, surviving with that animal behavior."

I love this quote from Dorothy Day:

[quote]We have all known the long loneliness and we have learned that the only solution is love and that love comes with community.[/quote]

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Era Might' date='11 November 2009 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1257988207' post='2000979']
Dorothy Day was an amazing woman. I don't know how much I would agree with her politics, but I think the essential thing she stood for was community. She was all about building community, which I think we have lost in modern society. As De La Soul say in one of their songs, "Neighborhoods are now 'hoods / 'Cause nobody's neighbors / Just animals, surviving with that animal behavior."

I love this quote from Dorothy Day:


[/quote]

This is one of my favorites: "Certainly we disagree with the Communist Party, as we disagree with other political parties who are trying to maintain the American way of life."

~Sternhauser

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Aloysius]

she was indeed a great distributist anti-capitalism anarchist.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 November 2009 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1257990527' post='2000990']
she was indeed a great distributist anti-capitalism anarchist.
[/quote]

Yes she was a great distributist. And she didn't want to achieve her distributism through violence, as many modern distributists do. She was only against "self-seeking" capitalism. In other words, capitalism guided by purely selfish ends.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Aloysius]

... I am of accord with Dorothy Day as to means of achieving distributism, so I'm not sure who you're talking about.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 November 2009 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1257991435' post='2001002']
... I am of accord with Dorothy Day as to means of achieving distributism, so I'm not sure who you're talking about.
[/quote]

You don't want statutory violence to determine how much people get paid? Then you and I are comrades.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Aloysius]

can you show me where Dorothy Day opposed living wage statutes?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 November 2009 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1257991912' post='2001010']
can you show me where Dorothy Day opposed living wage statutes?
[/quote]

No. Just as you cannot show me where she approved of them. But she did not believe in working through "Holy Mother State," as she called it. She was an agorist.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 November 2009 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1257991912' post='2001010']
can you show me where Dorothy Day opposed living wage statutes?
[/quote]

Seeing as she was an anarchist, it would stand to reason wouldn't it?

[Aloysius]

about Dorothy's anarchism, from Jim Forest:

[quote]There is a lot in Dorothy to cheer you along as she consistently called herself an anarchist. The word had Greek roots, she explained to me one day. An anarchist was a person without a king. She told me that having Jesus Christ as one's king was enough of a challenge, and that his kingdom was not of this world. She was not very interested in politics. I don't recall her ever expressing strong views either on would-be presidents or presidents-in-office — John Kennedy at the time. Trying to better understand what Dorothy meant by anarchism, I got a subscription to a British journal called "Anarchy." When I showed an issue to Dorothy, she warned me that reading such publications was a waste of time because most people who called themselves anarchists were atheists and also tended to be people who preferred publishing manifestoes and arguing with each other to helping people in need. The only anarchist writings she urged me to read were several books by a nineteenth century Russian prince and scientist, Peter Kropotkin, a remarkable man who had been outraged by the Darwinian theory of survival of the fittest (an idea Ebenezer-Scrooge-type capitalists found hugely attractive). Kropotkin posed against the pseudo-scientific enshrinement of competition his own insights and observations about cooperation and mutual aid, arguing persuasively that human beings do best when they help each other, not when they treat each other as commodities or ladders. [/quote]

Anyway, Stern, you're right that she did indeed prefer UNIONS to achieve living wages... which is perfectly in line with what I say which is that there must be some type of institution, be it judicial arbitration, unions, guilds, or even state laws which guarantee the right of the worker to a living wage. any of those institutions are just fine with me, and certainly unions or guilds are preferable. something must enforce justice, in terms of the fact that man has a natural right to a living wage (Dorothy would've said this herself)

she was not at all compatible with 'free market anarchism', my friend.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 November 2009 - 10:49 PM' timestamp='1257994191' post='2001040']
about Dorothy's anarchism, from Jim Forest:[/quote]

That is a personal reading of her beliefs, just like mine.

[quote]
When I showed an issue to Dorothy, she warned me that reading such publications was a waste of time because most people who called themselves anarchists were atheists and also tended to be people who preferred publishing manifestoes and arguing with each other to helping people in need.[/quote]

And what did her tight friend Peter Maurin say about his beliefs? [font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][size="3"]"Sure I’m an anarchist. All thinking people are anarchists, but I prefer the name personalist." Was he an atheist? Was he not concentrating on helping others? [/size][/font]

[quote]Anyway, Stern, you're right that she did indeed prefer UNIONS to achieve living wages... which is perfectly in line with what I say which is that there must be some type of institution, be it judicial arbitration, unions, guilds, or even state laws which guarantee the right of the worker to a living wage. any of those institutions are just fine with me, and certainly unions or guilds are preferable. something must enforce justice, in terms of the fact that man has a natural right to a living wage (Dorothy would've said this herself)

she was not at all compatible with 'free market anarchism', my friend.
[/quote]

You have no natural right to a living wage. You have the privilege a living wage. If your labor results in 10 rows of corn, two rows of beans, and two chickens per year, your labor is your right. Your labor is worth what the market will pay for it. That's all. No more. The earth itself doesn't owe you a "living wage." Nor does the market.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Aloysius]

Peter Maurin was great too. Jim Forest was also a friend of Dorothy, it's a first hand account. I'm not showing it as an indictment of anarchism, just to show Dorothy's anarchism for what it really was... and it wasn't something which was compatible with "free market anarchism"

Dorothy would have disagreed with you on your point against the right of man to living wages, Stern.

[quote]But God meant things to be much easier than we have made them. A man has a natural right to food, clothing, and shelter. A certain amount of goods is necessary to lead a good life. A family needs work as well as bread. Properly is proper to man. We must keep repeating these things. Eternal life begins now.[/quote] -Dorothy Day

Anyway, no retort to the fact that Dorothy supported unions? Dorothy was absolutely on the side of demanding a living wage; of being absolutely opposed to any work that didn't provide a living wage. Want to know what Dorothy thought? Look to Belloc and Chesterton...

"The principles of Distributism have been more or less implicit in much that we have written in the Catholic Worker for a long time. We have advised our readers to begin with four books, Chesterton's What's Wrong With the World, The Outline of Sanity and Belloc's The Servile State and Restoration of Property. The aim of Distributism is family ownership of land, workshops, stores, transport, trades, professions, and so on." -Dorothy Day

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 November 2009 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1257995553' post='2001052']
Peter Maurin was great too. Jim Forest was also a friend of Dorothy, it's a first hand account. I'm not showing it as an indictment of anarchism, just to show Dorothy's anarchism for what it really was... and it wasn't something which was compatible with "free market anarchism"[/quote]

Free market anarchism, devoid of Christ, is not compatible with my beliefs. Free market anarchism with Christ, is compatible with my beliefs, and the beliefs of Dorothy Day.

[quote]Dorothy would have disagreed with you on your point against the right of man to living wages, Stern.

"But God meant things to be much easier than we have made them. A manhas a natural right to food, clothing, and shelter. A certain amount ofgoods is necessary to lead a good life. A family needs work as well asbread. Properly is proper to man. We must keep repeating these things.Eternal life begins now."
[/quote]

If they were natural rights by the way you define them, we would be born with food, clothing and shelter. However, they are natural rights insofar as no one may deprive them from us, as keeping the fruits of one's labor is in accordance with our nature.

[quote]Anyway, no retort to the fact that Dorothy supported unions? [/quote]

I have no problems with unions, as long as they are non-violent, and exist to uphold safety and to uphold contract terms.

[quote]
Dorothy was absolutely on the side of demanding a living wage; of being absolutely opposed to any work that didn't provide a living wage. Want to know what Dorothy thought? Look to Belloc and Chesterton... [/quote]

She was opposed to work that does not provide a living wage? So am I. Our means and your means of attaining the desired end are different.

[quote]"The principles of Distributism have been more or less implicit in much that we have written in the Catholic Worker for a long time. We have advised our readers to begin with four books, Chesterton's What's Wrong With the World, The Outline of Sanity and Belloc's The Servile State and Restoration of Property. The aim of Distributism is family ownership of land, workshops, stores, transport, trades, professions, and so on." -Dorothy Day
[/quote]

The aim of distributism is family ownership of land, workships, stores, transport, trades, professions, and so on. However, you may not shoot through innocent people to hit the target.

~Sternhauser

Edited November 12, 2009 by Sternhauser