Lil Red Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 +J.M.J.+ This was in our local paper a couple of weeks back. The author is part of [url="http://www.focusonthekingdom.org/"]Restoration Fellowship[/url]: [font="Century Gothic"]Christ our Savior quoted Psalm 8:2 - "by the mouths of babes and infants" - when he gave a lesson to the chief priests and scribes. In doing so, he brought forth a teaching to all the masses, that the understanding of God the Father and his works is not a complex issue but is so simple that even the smallest of children can understand and voice their praise to the heavens in perfect form. In modern terms, this has become known as the KIS (Keep it Simple) method. In that light, I'd like to try and reason with a lot of Christians on the role of Jesus in our lives. Does a light bulb give light? Does a toaster brown bread? Does a computer perform millions of computations? If you answered yes, please try to think a little more deeply than the facade of man's inventions. Electricity gives light when it meets resistance of a tungsten wire in a light bulb. Electricity toasts our bagels and bread through the wires, springs and sensors in the toaster. The computer, despite all its complex hardware and software programs, cannot operate without electricity. The reality is electricity does many things through our modern gadgets and conveniences. The same is true of God the Father. Did Moses turn his staff into a snake in front of Pharaoh? Did Elijah bring fire to the bull sacrifice on Mount Carmel? Were the abilities to heal and raise Lazarus from the dead from the Christ Jesus? Obviously, the answer is no because all the miracles and accomplishments listed in the Bible were not done by any man or even the Son of Man, but, rather, they were done by God the Father through his chosen men and his only begotten Son. Jesus the Christ Son is quoted in John 12:49: "For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak." Based on these simple principles, I am left to wonder how a complex belief such as the Trinity (one God in three equal parts, but still one) can become mainstream, when such a belief completely flies in the face of the very first Commandment God gave Moses. "I am the Lord your God and you shall have no other gods before me." The simple truth is, God the Father is God alone. His Son, the Christ Jesus, died and was raised from the dead by the Father. The ascension of Christ does not mean he is equal to God but, rather, Jesus is the most-high servant of God and is waiting for God the Father's command to return to Earth. Even Jesus doesn't know when that will occur, but only God the Father (Matthew 24:36). Simply, this can only mean that God is God alone and not split into three equal parts. In conclusion, just as no invention can operate without electricity, no miraculous healing or salvation ever occurred without God the Father. But through many men and Christ, God the Father has saved us, and, therefore, only he deserves our worship.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) They apparently didn't get the memo in 325. Edited November 11, 2009 by Resurrexi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' date='11 November 2009 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1257977838' post='2000892'] The simple truth is, God the Father is God alone. [/quote] "In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was [i]with [/i]God: and the Word [i]was [/i]God. ... And the [i]Word [/i]was made flesh and dwelt among us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' date='11 November 2009 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1257978754' post='2000910'] They apparently didn't get the memo in 325. [/quote] +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='Lil Red' date='11 November 2009 - 05:17 PM' timestamp='1257977838' post='2000892'] +J.M.J.+ This was in our local paper a couple of weeks back. The author is part of [url="http://www.focusonthekingdom.org/"]Restoration Fellowship[/url]: Christ our Savior quoted Psalm 8:2 - "by the mouths of babes and infants" - when he gave a lesson to the chief priests and scribes. In doing so, he brought forth a teaching to all the masses, that the understanding of God the Father and his works is not a complex issue but is so simple that even the smallest of children can understand and voice their praise to the heavens in perfect form. [/quote] This is a fantastic example of eisegesis. Nowhere is any indication giving that Psalm 8:2 is referring to God's simplicity, but the author wants that to be its meaning in order to take it in a particular direction. [quote]In modern terms, this has become known as the KIS (Keep it Simple) method. In that light, I'd like to try and reason with a lot of Christians on the role of Jesus in our lives. Does a light bulb give light? Does a toaster brown bread? Does a computer perform millions of computations? If you answered yes, please try to think a little more deeply than the facade of man's inventions. Electricity gives light when it meets resistance of a tungsten wire in a light bulb. Electricity toasts our bagels and bread through the wires, springs and sensors in the toaster. The computer, despite all its complex hardware and software programs, cannot operate without electricity. The reality is electricity does many things through our modern gadgets and conveniences. The same is true of God the Father.[/quote] God is simultaneously beautifully simple and intricately complex. Simply because God the Father acts through God the Son does not logically lead us to the author's conclusion. [quote]Did Moses turn his staff into a snake in front of Pharaoh? Did Elijah bring fire to the bull sacrifice on Mount Carmel? Were the abilities to heal and raise Lazarus from the dead from the Christ Jesus? Obviously, the answer is no because all the miracles and accomplishments listed in the Bible were not done by any man or even the Son of Man, but, rather, they were done by God the Father through his chosen men and his only begotten Son. Jesus the Christ Son is quoted in John 12:49: "For I have not spoken on my own authority; the Father who sent me has himself given me commandment what to say and what to speak."[/quote] The author continues to use eisegesis in hanging his entire argument on single verse (ignoring all the references to the Father and the Son dwelling in one another, being one, etc.). John 12:49 tells us what Philippians 2:6 tells us: "though he was in the form of God, [Jesus] did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." This verse, taken in the context of all the Scriptures affirming Christ as God, can only mean that He submits Himself to the Father (which is an act in continuity with His eternal gift of self to the Father). [quote]Based on these simple principles, I am left to wonder how a complex belief such as the Trinity (one God in three equal parts, but still one) can become mainstream, when such a belief completely flies in the face of the very first Commandment God gave Moses. "I am the Lord your God and you shall have no other gods before me." The simple truth is, God the Father is God alone.[/quote] The interpretation that the Trinity violates the First Commandment is essentially Arian and derives from misunderstanding of what the Trinity is. The dogma of the Trinity never says that there is more than one God. [quote]His Son, the Christ Jesus, died and was raised from the dead by the Father. The ascension of Christ does not mean he is equal to God but, rather, Jesus is the most-high servant of God and is waiting for God the Father's command to return to Earth. Even Jesus doesn't know when that will occur, but only God the Father (Matthew 24:36). Simply, this can only mean that God is God alone and not split into three equal parts.[/quote] The Holy Trinity is not God split into three equal parts. The author should study the Council of Nicaea and try to understand the Athanasian Creed (or Quicumque), which clarifies this. The one divine nature is possessed entirely by each of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity eternally, which is possible because they dwell within one another (perichoresis). As a visual aid, if you take three bowls and fill one with water and say that each bowl is a Person of the Trinity and that the water is the divine nature, the author of this article would be arguing that the dogma of the Trinity is saying that the water is split between the bowls, meaning each divine Person is only partly God. However, the truth is that the dogma would really have all the bowls resting within one another, and therefore all the bowls simultaneously holding the water because they dwell in one another. [quote]In conclusion, just as no invention can operate without electricity, no miraculous healing or salvation ever occurred without God the Father. But through many men and Christ, God the Father has saved us, and, therefore, only he deserves our worship.[/quote] Authentic Christian faith would never never say that salvation or any other act of Christ occurred without the Father. Each Person of the Holy Trinity acts personally in each divine act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Forgot to add: if Christ is not God, we are not saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You can't argue with this type of reasoning. I have even seen websites devoted to proving that the Trinity is pagan and saying that Jesus' statement about being one with the Father, and having seen the Father by seeing Him are all misunderstood (by those of us who believe in the Trinity). What can you do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Geez... like, Arianism was SOOOOO last millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 [quote name='Raphael' date='11 November 2009 - 11:03 PM' timestamp='1257998606' post='2001076'] This is a fantastic example of eisegesis. Nowhere is any indication giving that Psalm 8:2 is referring to God's simplicity, but the author wants that to be its meaning in order to take it in a particular direction. God is simultaneously beautifully simple and intricately complex. Simply because God the Father acts through God the Son does not logically lead us to the author's conclusion. The author continues to use eisegesis in hanging his entire argument on single verse (ignoring all the references to the Father and the Son dwelling in one another, being one, etc.). John 12:49 tells us what Philippians 2:6 tells us: "though he was in the form of God, [Jesus] did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." This verse, taken in the context of all the Scriptures affirming Christ as God, can only mean that He submits Himself to the Father (which is an act in continuity with His eternal gift of self to the Father). The interpretation that the Trinity violates the First Commandment is essentially Arian and derives from misunderstanding of what the Trinity is. The dogma of the Trinity never says that there is more than one God. The Holy Trinity is not God split into three equal parts. The author should study the Council of Nicaea and try to understand the Athanasian Creed (or Quicumque), which clarifies this. The one divine nature is possessed entirely by each of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity eternally, which is possible because they dwell within one another (perichoresis). As a visual aid, if you take three bowls and fill one with water and say that each bowl is a Person of the Trinity and that the water is the divine nature, the author of this article would be arguing that the dogma of the Trinity is saying that the water is split between the bowls, meaning each divine Person is only partly God. However, the truth is that the dogma would really have all the bowls resting within one another, and therefore all the bowls simultaneously holding the water because they dwell in one another. Authentic Christian faith would never never say that salvation or any other act of Christ occurred without the Father. Each Person of the Holy Trinity acts personally in each divine act. [/quote] You Boom-Roasted that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Lol, funny coincidence; I was reading the Athanasian Creed today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now