Greater Literature: England Or The United States?

[Luigi]

[quote name='Varg' date='11 November 2009 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1257975849' post='2000856']
Hemmingway is tosh. The Old Man and the Sea is THE most dull book I've ever been forced to read.
[/quote]

Perhaps you don't understand it. It's all a metaphor for what critics do to writers: The old man is the lone author (with his subservient little helper, the editor) who uses a lifetime of skill to go after "the big one" - true literature, a really great novel. And as soon as he catches it, the sharks (critics) rip it to shreds, leaving nothing the bones on the beach.

I understand it, but I still find it self-absorbed.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Varg' date='11 November 2009 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1257975849' post='2000856']
Hemmingway is tosh. The Old Man and the Sea is THE most dull book I've ever been forced to read.
[/quote]
Not read that one, but I can't say I'm a fan of Hemingway. It's been a few years since I've read anything by him, though, so maybe I should re-read one of his short stories and see if my opinion has changed. I hated the class where I was reading Hemingway, so I'm sure that probably coloured my view of him somewhat.

[Totus Tuus]

I think it's an ambiguous question considering the English have been producing literature since the time of the Anglo-Saxons before they even spoke ENGLISH. I don't think it's a fair question.

I will say that I'm a Flannery O'Conner fan representin'

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Varg' date='12 November 2009 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1257975849' post='2000856']
Hemmingway is tosh. The Old Man and the Sea is THE most dull book I've ever been forced to read.
[/quote]


Are you saying that you haven't read Joseph Conrad's "Lord Jim" then?

[Starets]

Alrighty then. In interests of making this question a little more fair, given that the Sceptered Isle has been producing literature for over a thousand years now, maybe we should limit our discussion to just one centure? Say the 19th or 20th?

[kafka]

while this thread is alive I have a couple of recommendations.

First, this new movie Bright Star about the Brit poet John Keats and his betrothed Fawny Brawne was excellent. First rate period peice. Above average acting. And educational:

http://www.brightstar-movie.com/


Second this anthology of English and American poetry:

The Best Poems of the English Language: From Chaucer Through Robert Frost

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Poems-English-Language-Chaucer/dp/0060540427/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258057193&sr=1-12

The collection and the introductory essay and indroductions and commentaries are excellent and not difficult for the average reader. The critic Harold Bloom is brill, he has been doing this for 60 years, and these selections are his personal best.

[kafka]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='11 November 2009 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1257997595' post='2001068']
Hawthorne, Poe, Melville, and Whitman I wouldn't even put in the same league as Chesterton for fiction. They were good, mind you, but Chesterton was better. You really must read some of his fiction... The Man who was Thursday, The Ball and the Cross, Manalive... read them. You might not agree with me, but read them because you might be less inclined to make that bet once you have read Chesterton's fiction.

It is an absolute travesty that Chesterton is so much unknown today. He ought to be included more in literature curriculum IMHO
[/quote]
I would find it hard to believe that something Chesterton wrote could compare with Moby D I C K.

[quote name='Staretz' date='12 November 2009 - 12:01 PM' timestamp='1258045281' post='2001317']
Alrighty then. In interests of making this question a little more fair, given that the Sceptered Isle has been producing literature for over a thousand years now, maybe we should limit our discussion to just one centure? Say the 19th or 20th?
[/quote]
over the past two centuries I would say it is a tie between the two. England takes the first half of the 19th cent. The U.S. takes the second half of the 19th cent. And the two are tied in the 20th cent.

Edited November 12, 2009 by kafka

[kafka]

I'll throw this out there. Should T.S. Eliot be considered an American or a British poet?

[Aloysius]

[quote name='kafka' date='12 November 2009 - 04:24 PM' timestamp='1258057488' post='2001402']
I would find it hard to believe that something Chesterton wrote could compare with Moby D I C K.
[/quote]
I've read both and find it very easy to believe. read Chesterton for yourself, if nothing else I guarantee you'll probably like it even if you don't come to my conclusion.

[Arpy]

Oscar Wilde.

England wins, QED.*

[size=1]*And no, I don't care if you don't count plays as literature**

**I will back my claim up with Monty Python if needed***

***Do not test me.[/size]

[Era Might]

[quote name='Arpy' date='14 November 2009 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1258260493' post='2003097']
Oscar Wilde.

England wins, QED.*

[size=1]*And no, I don't care if you don't count plays as literature**

**I will back my claim up with Monty Python if needed***

***Do not test me.[/size]
[/quote]
The United States has some great plays as well. "Death of a Salesman," etc.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Era Might' date='14 November 2009 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1258260645' post='2003100']
The United States has some great plays as well. "Death of a Salesman," etc.
[/quote]

Good play.

[Arpy]

I shall concede Arsenic and Old Lace.

[Era Might]

Am I the only person who dislikes John Donne's poetry? I "get" that he's a great poet. But in my opinion he uses some annoying metaphors, images, etc.

[Starets]

That's "Metaphysical Poetry" for you. Much as I liked th work of Donne and other Metaphysical Poets such as Jonathan Suckling, I agree with what Samuel Johnson had to say about them: "they were very learned men and fond of showing their learning"!