Questions For Homeschooling Families

[Theoketos]

I think homeschooling is great. If I lived in any other diocese or way out in the boonies, then it would be the first option. However the Diocese of Wichita and her school system are tre bien! But circumstances might be changing soon and so I need help reconciling home schooling with the Church's teaching on the necessity of religious education and the preeminence it places on Catholic Schools.

Take for example Gravissimum Educationis section 8
[quote]
The Council also reminds Catholic parents of the duty of entrusting their children to Catholic schools wherever and whenever it is possible and of supporting these schools to the best of their ability and of cooperating with them for the education of their children.[/quote]

By the way, this is one of those quotes that makes it easy to say the council is in accord with tradition.

So, with sincere interest, how is that parents home school when Catholic schools are a duty whenever possible?

[Archaeology cat]

I can't speak for others, but we will likely be homeschooling b/c the majority of faith schools here receive government funding and thus must follow the national curriculum (and if you've been following any UK news, that now means sex ed from age 5, and can't opt out after age 15). I have other issues with the national curriculum, too, since religion is covered in the national curriculum. Of course, it's possible to get a really good teacher who can still make sure the Catholic beliefs are preeminent, but there's no guarantee. If I lived close to an Oratory, I would be more likely to consider it. I think a parent has to consider whether his child will be receiving a true Catholic education at a Catholic school, too. We also cannot afford a Catholic school that isn't receiving government funding unless they gave us a 95% discount on tuition, which is why we're not considering that route at the moment.

[Aloysius]

I would disagree with saying that this quote is one that is easy to reconcile with tradition, because tradition has placed tremendous emphasis upon parents as the first educators in the faith and the Catholic school system was only founded as a Catholic alternative when cumpulsory education was being begun by the state, and it was never meant to usurp the parents' right to educate their children apart from the school system.. The traditional Catholic doctrine that parents have the right and responsibility to teach their children the faith themselves is left unchanged.

This would actually be a fairly controversial quote from the council in terms of reconciling the council to tradition. not the most controversial, but not the easiest to reconcile either.

reading this quote in the light of tradition, since the previous traditions all talk about the parents' primary rights to educate their children, I would say it is speaking here of the situation in which the two alternatives are public schools or Catholic schools, that parents would have a duty to support the Catholic schools over the public schools.

I should be able to dig up some quotes in support of what I'm saying, brb with them probably.

[Aloysius]

reading section 6, 7, and 8 together makes it clear to me that what I said is indeed what the document intended to say. It begins by speaking of the "primary" and "inalienable" right of parents to educate their children, stating that they should have full freedom over how to do so and to whom they wish to entrust it... and as part of the discussion of the parents' freedom to decide to whom they wish to entrust the education of their children (which, in the previous context of section 6's strong language about their primary and inalienable right to provide it how they see fit, means they need not entrust it to anyone other than themselves if they don't want to), it reminds them of the duty of entrusting religious education to the Church. ie, you should pick Catholic schools over public schools when available. In context, it does not mean that the Church is calling upon Catholics to pick Catholic schools over homeschooling; section 8 already presupposes that we're talking about the choice of to whom to entrust giving a share of the parents' right to educate. ie, 'if you're not doing it yourself, try to get the Church to do it'

This reading of it resonates with John Paul II's Familiaris Consortio:
""The right and duty of parents to give education is essential, since it is connected with the transmission of human life;...[b]it is irreplaceable and inalienable, and therefore incapable of being entirely delegated to others or usurped by others[/b]...In addition to these characteristics, it cannot be forgotten that the most basic element, so basic that it qualifies the educational role of parents, is parental love, which finds fulfillment in the task of education as it completes and perfects its service of life; as well as being a source, the parents' love is also the animating principle and [b]therefore the norm[/b], inspiring and guiding all concrete educational activity, enriching it with the values of kindness, constancy, goodness, service, disinterestedness and self-sacrifice that are most precious fruit of love." (emphases mine)

when parents send their children to schools, they are delegating to others a task which is by right their task. they do not have to delegate, but when they delegate they have a duty to seek out Catholic schools if possible.

[add]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='11 November 2009 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1257912387' post='2000188']
I think homeschooling is great. If I lived in any other diocese or way out in the boonies, then it would be the first option. However the Diocese of Wichita and her school system are tre bien! But circumstances might be changing soon and so I need help reconciling home schooling with the Church's teaching on the necessity of religious education and the preeminence it places on Catholic Schools.

Take for example Gravissimum Educationis section 8


By the way, this is one of those quotes that makes it easy to say the council is in accord with tradition.

So, with sincere interest, how is that parents home school when Catholic schools are a duty whenever possible?
[/quote]

We used Seton for our kids. It’s complete and VERYCATHOLIC!!!
Seton homeschool (http://www.setonhome.org/) [url="http://www.setonhome.org/"]My link[/url] . check it out.
The REAL PLUS is Seton’s religion program. Very rigorous. I did who did not get much out of my own RCIA program; I still had manyquestions and doubts about the teachings of the Church until I beganteaching my own children the Faith.

[JimR-OCDS]

[quote name='Theoketos' date='11 November 2009 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1257912387' post='2000188']
I think homeschooling is great. If I lived in any other diocese or way out in the boonies, then it would be the first option. However the Diocese of Wichita and her school system are tre bien! But circumstances might be changing soon and so I need help reconciling home schooling with the Church's teaching on the necessity of religious education and the preeminence it places on Catholic Schools.

Take for example Gravissimum Educationis section 8


By the way, this is one of those quotes that makes it easy to say the council is in accord with tradition.

So, with sincere interest, how is that parents home school when Catholic schools are a duty whenever possible?
[/quote]


Well, at the end of her 2nd grade year, my daughter(now an adult) was kicked out of Catholic School.

So much for the duty to send their children to Catholic school.

Jim

[zunshynn]

Well... why couldn't you consider a Catholic homeschooling program a Catholic school? And even without a program... I would think that schooling one's children, as a Catholic family, as a domestic church, qualifies as a Catholic school.

And you have to ask yourself... that quote stipulates "supporting these schools to the best of their ability and of cooperating with them for the education of their children"... but what if the schools are not holding up their side of the bargain, refusing to cooperate with parents?

I was never homeschooled, and in my situation that was probably best... But I did attend Catholic school for several years before transferring to public school (unfortunately, due to serious bullying that the teachers and administration turned a blind eye to). It's interesting that I, although I did lose my faith for a time in high school, am the only one now from my class to still be practicing their faith.

I would say that when a Catholic school is nominally Catholic, and not really making strides to improve, that could make it quite impossible to send one's children there, in good conscience.

Edited November 11, 2009 by zunshynn

[Sojourner]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='11 November 2009 - 10:58 AM' timestamp='1257955131' post='2000648']
Well... why couldn't you consider a Catholic homeschooling program a Catholic school? And even without a program... I would think that schooling one's children, as a Catholic family, as a domestic church, qualifies as a Catholic school.

And you have to ask yourself... that quote stipulates "supporting these schools to the best of their ability and of cooperating with them for the education of their children"... but what if the schools are not holding up their side of the bargain, refusing to cooperate with parents?

I was never homeschooled, and in my situation that was probably best... But I did attend Catholic school for several years before transferring to public school (unfortunately, due to serious bullying that the teachers and administration turned a blind eye to). It's interesting that I, although I did lose my faith for a time in high school, am the only one now from my class to still be practicing their faith.

I would say that when a Catholic school is nominally Catholic, and not really making strides to improve, that could make it quite impossible to send one's children there, in good conscience.
[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly with this.

There are many ways that Catholic schools can go wrong, and I as a parent feel no call to support a school that has lost its focus, has selected poor teachers or administrators, or which provides a sub-par education. Just because a school bears the name "Catholic" doesn't mean my search is at an end in discerning whether the school is a fit place to send my children.

[CatherineM]

I couldn't afford Catholic schools, and when I found out that the public school in Florida wasn't going to teach multiplication tables anymore, I went nuts and pulled him out of fourth grade. I used Calvert out of Baltimore. It wasn't Catholic, but I was already having to do that teaching at home, at least as little as I was allowed to do since the boys weren't my blood children, and their parents vetoed much of what I wanted to do in that regard.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='11 November 2009 - 11:28 AM' timestamp='1257953331' post='2000644']
Well, at the end of her 2nd grade year, my daughter(now an adult) was kicked out of Catholic School.

So much for the duty to send their children to Catholic school.

Jim
[/quote]
The duty doesn't change just because the school and your child had issues.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='apparently' date='11 November 2009 - 07:48 AM' timestamp='1257940096' post='2000600']
We used Seton for our kids. It’s complete and VERYCATHOLIC!!!
Seton homeschool (http://www.setonhome.org/) [url="http://www.setonhome.org/"]My link[/url] . check it out.
The REAL PLUS is Seton’s religion program. Very rigorous. I did who did not get much out of my own RCIA program; I still had manyquestions and doubts about the teachings of the Church until I beganteaching my own children the Faith.
[/quote]

Seton is amazing. So I second that

We used it also, and it is very good. It also can work as a supplemental program to go along with whatever education your child may be getting. For example, if your child is going to a Government ("public") school.

[IcePrincessKRS]

There isn't a Catholic School within a reasonable distance of our home (and by reasonable I mean less than an hour drive). I also would take into account just how Catholic an education they were really getting. Is that school basically "public school with uniforms"? I don't want my kids learning watered down Catechism (or practically none at all) in a school that I would expect to be one of the best places to send my child. In our current situation we have public school or DOD school as our only options. Our girls stay at home and probably know their prayers better than a large portion of the children who attend our parish.

[tinytherese]

This topic has been on my mind too. Though I should probably not stress too much about it at the moment since courtship won't even be on my radar for about two years. It's something that I want to keep in mind though. I've conidered doing homeschooling if I were in the financial circumstances of being able to stay at home with the kids. The concern on my mind is that there are some subjects that I just wouldn't feel comfortable teaching them myself. I've struggled in math and science for most of my academic life and when I had to take economics in high school that wasn't a particularly pleasant experience. So could you hire a private tutor for the kids for those subjects or send them to a public school part time? Then again, apart of me wonders if I could even teach the kids in general (except when it comes to the faith. I'm a theology major and want to go onto graduate school to study catechesis.)

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='11 November 2009 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1257955131' post='2000648']
Well... why couldn't you consider a Catholic homeschooling program a Catholic school? And even without a program... I would think that schooling one's children, as a Catholic family, as a domestic church, qualifies as a Catholic school.

And you have to ask yourself... that quote stipulates "supporting these schools to the best of their ability and of cooperating with them for the education of their children"... but what if the schools are not holding up their side of the bargain, refusing to cooperate with parents?

I was never homeschooled, and in my situation that was probably best... But I did attend Catholic school for several years before transferring to public school (unfortunately, due to serious bullying that the teachers and administration turned a blind eye to). It's interesting that I, although I did lose my faith for a time in high school, am the only one now from my class to still be practicing their faith.

I would say that when a Catholic school is nominally Catholic, and not really making strides to improve, that could make it quite impossible to send one's children there, in good conscience.
[/quote]
Agreed

[quote name='CatherineM' date='11 November 2009 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1257958772' post='2000672']
I couldn't afford Catholic schools, and when I found out that the public school in Florida wasn't going to teach multiplication tables anymore, I went nuts and pulled him out of fourth grade. I used Calvert out of Baltimore. It wasn't Catholic, but I was already having to do that teaching at home, at least as little as I was allowed to do since the boys weren't my blood children, and their parents vetoed much of what I wanted to do in that regard.
[/quote]
Yeah, don't you just love the Math Investigations curriculum. Actually, it's fine if it's used in conjunction with other things, but I didn't like using it solo. But maybe that's just my experience.

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='12 November 2009 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1257993188' post='2001029']
There isn't a Catholic School within a reasonable distance of our home (and by reasonable I mean less than an hour drive). I also would take into account just how Catholic an education they were really getting. Is that school basically "public school with uniforms"? I don't want my kids learning watered down Catechism (or practically none at all) in a school that I would expect to be one of the best places to send my child. In our current situation we have public school or DOD school as our only options. Our girls stay at home and probably know their prayers better than a large portion of the children who attend our parish.
[/quote]
Exactly. And that's what I feel I'd be getting into if I sent my children to one of the schools here, though I'd have to research more. I know there are good Catholic schools that receive government funding here, but not sure if the ones near me fit that.

[quote name='tinytherese' date='12 November 2009 - 03:06 AM' timestamp='1257995166' post='2001048']
This topic has been on my mind too. Though I should probably not stress too much about it at the moment since courtship won't even be on my radar for about two years. It's something that I want to keep in mind though. I've conidered doing homeschooling if I were in the financial circumstances of being able to stay at home with the kids. The concern on my mind is that there are some subjects that I just wouldn't feel comfortable teaching them myself. I've struggled in math and science for most of my academic life and when I had to take economics in high school that wasn't a particularly pleasant experience. So could you hire a private tutor for the kids for those subjects or send them to a public school part time? Then again, apart of me wonders if I could even teach the kids in general (except when it comes to the faith. I'm a theology major and want to go onto graduate school to study catechesis.)
[/quote]
I think in some cases having struggled in a certain subject matter can actually help you to teach it in a way that makes sense to the kids. But there are limitations, of course. I know I wouldn't be able to teach my children calculus, for instance, but by that time it would perhaps be possible for them to take the class at a community college (I'm pretty sure my cousin did this). It's also helpful if there's a group of homeschooling families who could perhaps pitch in for a tutor. My cousins also did this when learning language. There are ways to make it work.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='JimR-OCDS' date='12 November 2009 - 02:28 AM' timestamp='1257953331' post='2000644']
Well, at the end of her 2nd grade year, my daughter(now an adult) was kicked out of Catholic School.

So much for the duty to send their children to Catholic school.

Jim
[/quote]

I understand you here Jim. When my daughter was in 5th grade, we moved from Australia, where she was in a Catholic school to Northern California, where my brother's kids were in a Catholic school. When we went to enrol her in the same school, they said they were "full" in the 5th grade and couldn't fit her in, so she had to go to public school instead (homeschool wasn't an option at that time because I was a single parent working full-time). So for many years during a very formative time in her life she was exposed to the secular and atheist mind-set of the public school system. Now she is an adult, she no longer practices her faith. The ironic thing is that my friend's children, in Southern California were able to attend Catholic school, and they are not only not Catholic, but they are not even baptized any religion at all! My friend just recognized the value of the Catholic school system and wanted this for her kids!

So, there is room for the atheists and agmostics, but not the Catholics??

End note: I am hoping to teach in a Australian Catholic school as soon as my teacher registration papers come through!